All RN members must read this!!.......[IMPORTANT] take a look, a.s.a.p.!!

[da_microfone_destroya]

We should all be aware that premarital sex is a sin before God!!

Sex before marriage, pre-marital experience, assuming one is talking of sexual intercourse or perversion of the same, the word of God implies it all by calling it fornication. It knows no exception. It allows none. Renaming fornication does not change the act or remove the consequence. Those who commit fornication, sin.

Fornication is a sin against the other person involved. It is always a mutual sin engaged in by two or more. Involving others in your own sin, You sin against them. If your convictions had been strong perhaps they would have been encouraged to do right. The sin, the shame, the wrong is shared by both. For this reason Paul writes in I Corinthians 7:2, "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman have her own husband". Temptation is not a sin fornication is.

Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to.
God does not outlaw sex before marriage to rob us of pleasure, but to protect us from unwanted pregnancies and children born to parents who do not want them or are not prepared for them. Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions.

Note: - Anal sex is forbidden by God: Due to health related issues, infections can be transmitted effectively, and various other negative results.
- And oral sex is forbidden: it is scientifically proven that oral sex or such practices cause mouth cancer or form a danger on the health of a person who practices it, then it becomes totally prohibited.

Remember, this life is merely a test. The greatest thing to strive for is to enter Heaven and spend an eternity in paradise. God is merciful, and it's never too late to live a holy lifestyle. God created us, and we owe it to Him to obey his laws and praise Him.

May God guide u all....
God Bless

[z.Designs]

LOL @ dis..:D

[Luda167]

i agree wit da nigga on dis he got a point.

[Gfunk]

FUck off i dont believe in dat god shit

[The Wife]

Props!

[i`M [A] hUS[T]LA]

shits borin...

[da_microfone_destroya]

i propped u all back...tnx for readin

[Cawley]

Real Talk...

[MassDes07]

real talk, but ppl nowadays dont listen and dont take this shyt seriously until its too late, thats why imma do all my bad stuff until i get outta college and then get saved, just to forgive for all of my sins

[ßųşŧą Ņůţ]

seriouz? haha u can beleive wut u want..but i beleive on living life to the fullest and sex is one thing that makes it much better

[KINGTEASEO]

WELL....

ILL BE FKN DAMNED

[LouCards16]

you are right but i made the mistake too of having sex before marriage. even though it is a sin I still don't regret it because i did it with someone i loved and i am still with her.
Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions. that is one of the truest statements i've seen in a while, props for tryin to help ppl

[KMHpnotik]

danm

[Jeremy2k316]

good point but does it matter if you get divorced? and i cant get head from my girl man i dont know about all that but sex is sex it doesnt matter if you hit it from the front or from the back it still feels good lol but good post more ppl should know about this even tho most of them dont care

[JaDaMwUaHKiSs]

Tru Story, propz to ya

[Nemons3000]

propz for trying to enlighten people man...but anal and oral sex forbidden by God i haven't heard of that but props 4 da message

[da_microfone_destroya]

props to y'all

[FïŅgĄz]

To be honest, i don't believe in that. I've already broken it and im sure more people break it than people who follow it. But, im not gna blaspheme or anythin like that. So propz for gettin that info out there, cos it's real talk.

[¤MoNtErUnThEcItY¤]

i respect peoples beliefs but i fuck like a jack rabbit in heat

[yinyang]

if thats true i guess pretty much everyone in the world is going to hell eh? lol

[HUMAN_X_IN_DA_FLESH]

i agree but you do know that no one in this world is pure and the temptations to do sinful things is very high i've had sex before marriage but it's with the person i'm gonna marry so i doesn't seem wrong to me

[M©ΩΣyM©τivaτ©r]

thats hella true

[We$ton]

LOL @ dis..:D

[Smooth4Lyfe]

Goood Shit

[ReLiVaNt]

I agree but we were all doomed when Eve bit the apple! Popz

[Santa's Bitch]

FUck off i dont believe in dat god shitWTF?

[24/7_PIMP]

Real Talk...

[InYourDreams]

props

[ClOcKwOrK OrAnGe]

propz but its hard (no pun intended), fuccin temptation everywhere, college, my neighborhood every where theres sexy ass girls just waitin for it

[LeRaP]

fuck u for dat shit, i didn't even read tha whole think, the first sentence was enough...

believe what u want, but don't try to impose your stupid opinion on others....

religion is an illusion, it's man made, so be real and don't try to justify ANYTHING with god but with rational arguments, biatch

[»Got Tair«]

wow...just wow haha

[babii_gurl404]

props, this needed to be posted

[pimpbren]

i respect peoples beliefs but i fuck like a jack rabbit in heatword

[Jules Winnfield]

real talkage....propped

[Ðāßėsť]

Didnt Jesus die for the sins of all men & women? Plus, the bible was written by man and I dont think that everything in the bible is accurate and how did King James write his version of the bible and he couldnt read or write? Cant believe everything...think for yourselves!

[da_microfone_destroya]

tnx for all your opinions.

[EckoSe7enDeuce]

i was gonna go to hell anyways, besides, its not like i fuckin killed some1

[snowman1900]

mKing solomon had over 300 bitches but according to the bible god gave him mad money...

u get ur info from the same bible that says it's okay to sell ur daughter into slavery if she pisses u off..

same bible that says an eye for an eye and a couple pages l8r says turn the other cheek...





look mang...i'm not trying to offend christians or anything or down anybody's religion i'm just saying think for yourself....stop living your life based on what it says in sum 2000 yr old collection of stories written by men like me and you......ppl act like the bible fell out of the sky or summin so evrything in it is true..

Dare to think.....[i'm likin that phrase more and more evrytime]

[snowman1900]

i was gonna go to hell anyways, besides, its not like i fuckin killed some1rofl

[trailboy]

Real Talk...

[yungkel03]

i dont understand how people can laugh at dis thread doe. but real talk and way to spread the word!!!

[Tyshizzle]

thats hella true

[da_microfone_destroya]

props back :)

[LeRaP]

negs back :smh:

BTW, this is year 2005, welcome to the 21. century

[da_microfone_destroya]

negs back :smh:

BTW, this is year 2005, welcome to the 21. century

SO WHAT if this is the year 2005???? since when did God's teachings become secondary in our lives? i respect your opinion... but u need to grow up, i hope people neg u back.

[LeRaP]

SO WHAT if this is the year 2005???? since when did God's teachings become secondary in our lives? i respect your opinion... but u need to grow up, i hope people neg u back.

IMO the importance of "God's teachings" is and has been declining steadily (when you see the (christian) religious influence during medieval times at the top) - and in this and the last century religion is becoming less and less important.

Ok, WHY? Back in the days (about 2000 years ago) ppl could explain very few things rationally - so they tried to explain it superhuman and created God as a result (i talk about christianity here). With the increasing scientific and social developments, we can explain many of these things rationally now - and for me,that's the best proof of the uselessness of religion in these times, TODAY.

And don't get me wrong - religion had (still has) a important function on us, I think of values like humanity and altruism. And when we didn't have a actual governmental authority it was probably the fear of God that scared off ppl to breach these values and commit crimes and shit...

But I don't believe in God, like i also don't believe in Moses receiving the 10 commandments by God and the wonders Jesus allegedly worked. People create(d) religion. And including wonders and superhuman powers prolly seems to make religion more appealing for ppl (and every religion wants to win pll over, doesn't it).

So, concluding - your thread has some sort of a point (risc of infections,adultary...) BUT please don't justify that with God, that just sounds too cheap to me, cause I don't let no alleged God limit my freedom in the borders of law (everyone has to decide for himself though in which values he believes)

If u believe in God and premarital abstinence, do it, it's your freedom - but that's nothing what every RN member has to read a.s.a.p

My opinion, let's just discuss

[lil_guyana_souljah]

its way tooo late...afta the 60's it reached the point of no return

[lil_guyana_souljah]

IMO the importance of "God's teachings" is and has been declining steadily (when you see the (christian) religious influence during medieval times at the top) - and in this and the last century religion is becoming less and less important.

Ok, WHY? Back in the days (about 2000 years ago) ppl could explain very few things rationally - so they tried to explain it superhuman and created God as a result (i talk about christianity here). With the increasing scientific and social developments, we can explain many of these things rationally now - and for me,that's the best proof of the uselessness of religion in these times, TODAY.

And don't get me wrong - religion had (still has) a important function on us, I think of values like humanity and altruism. And when we didn't have a actual governmental authority it was probably the fear of God that scared off ppl to breach these values and commit crimes and shit...

But I don't believe in God, like i also don't believe in Moses receiving the 10 commandments by God and the wonders Jesus allegedly worked. People create(d) religion. And including wonders and superhuman powers prolly seems to make religion more appealing for ppl (and every religion wants to win pll over, doesn't it).

So, concluding - your thread has some sort of a point (risc of infections,adultary...) BUT please don't justify that with God, that just sounds too cheap to me, cause I don't let no alleged God limit my freedom in the borders of law (everyone has to decide for himself though in which values he believes)

If u believe in God and premarital abstinence, do it, it's your freedom - but that's nothing what every RN member has to read a.s.a.p

My opinion, let's just discuss

G-G-G-G-G-G-G U-NEGZZZZZZ
not cuz of yo opinion...jus cuz u a leecher :cheer: :woot:

[Sands212]

IMO the importance of "God's teachings" is and has been declining steadily (when you see the (christian) religious influence during medieval times at the top) - and in this and the last century religion is becoming less and less important.

Ok, WHY? Back in the days (about 2000 years ago) ppl could explain very few things rationally - so they tried to explain it superhuman and created God as a result (i talk about christianity here). With the increasing scientific and social developments, we can explain many of these things rationally now - and for me,that's the best proof of the uselessness of religion in these times, TODAY.

And don't get me wrong - religion had (still has) a important function on us, I think of values like humanity and altruism. And when we didn't have a actual governmental authority it was probably the fear of God that scared off ppl to breach these values and commit crimes and shit...

But I don't believe in God, like i also don't believe in Moses receiving the 10 commandments by God and the wonders Jesus allegedly worked. People create(d) religion. And including wonders and superhuman powers prolly seems to make religion more appealing for ppl (and every religion wants to win pll over, doesn't it).

So, concluding - your thread has some sort of a point (risc of infections,adultary...) BUT please don't justify that with God, that just sounds too cheap to me, cause I don't let no alleged God limit my freedom in the borders of law (everyone has to decide for himself though in which values he believes)

If u believe in God and premarital abstinence, do it, it's your freedom - but that's nothing what every RN member has to read a.s.a.p

My opinion, let's just discuss
negged cuz you an athiest, you dont deserve to live

[LeRaP]

negged cuz you an athiest, you dont deserve to live

the word is spelt "atheist" you stupid, ignorant, illiterate bitch
btw I'm christian, fag

[z.Designs]

negs back :smh:

BTW, this is year 2005, welcome to the 21. century
well..NEGS 4 u muthafuka

[Sands212]

the word is spelt "atheist" you stupid, ignorant, illiterate bitch
btw I'm christian, fag
yeah ama fag cuz I mispelled a word :smh:, nigga you a leecher fucking 89 posts in one year fuck outta here

[LeRaP]

yeah ama fag cuz I mispelled a word :smh:, nigga you a leecher fucking 89 posts in one year fuck outta here

no, as I posted, you're a stupid, ignorant, illiterate bitch cuz u misspelled a word (sentence 1 and btw, you just did it again)

[so_seductive]

We should all be aware that premarital sex is a sin before God!!

Sex before marriage, pre-marital experience, assuming one is talking of sexual intercourse or perversion of the same, the word of God implies it all by calling it fornication. It knows no exception. It allows none. Renaming fornication does not change the act or remove the consequence. Those who commit fornication, sin.

Fornication is a sin against the other person involved. It is always a mutual sin engaged in by two or more. Involving others in your own sin, You sin against them. If your convictions had been strong perhaps they would have been encouraged to do right. The sin, the shame, the wrong is shared by both. For this reason Paul writes in I Corinthians 7:2, "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman have her own husband". Temptation is not a sin fornication is.

Sex before marriage is just as wrong as adultery and other forms of sexual immorality, because they all involve having sex with someone you are not married to.
God does not outlaw sex before marriage to rob us of pleasure, but to protect us from unwanted pregnancies and children born to parents who do not want them or are not prepared for them. Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions.

Note: - Anal sex is forbidden by God: Due to health related issues, infections can be transmitted effectively, and various other negative results.
- And oral sex is forbidden: it is scientifically proven that oral sex or such practices cause mouth cancer or form a danger on the health of a person who practices it, then it becomes totally prohibited.

Remember, this life is merely a test. The greatest thing to strive for is to enter Heaven and spend an eternity in paradise. God is merciful, and it's never too late to live a holy lifestyle. God created us, and we owe it to Him to obey his laws and praise Him.

May God guide u all....
God Bless

that's real talk there...thanx for spreading the word...more people should read this

[Sands212]

no, as I posted, you're a stupid, ignorant, illiterate bitch cuz u misspelled a word (sentence 1 and btw, you just did it again)
Leccher, defend that. Bitch ass nigga.

[KarmelFlamez]

how u know everyone believe in god tho?

[REALTALK87]

preach

[Deuced_ouT_KooBz]

well yea i hear dat .. but dat means dat ive sinned like 40 sumthin timez .. eh .. i dont regret it .. i love pussy wtf iz wrong wit dat ? .. i styll believe in god .. and i am religious but sex iz just a part of life .. if u dont go through it .. well u suck .. :)

[da_microfone_destroya]

well yea i hear dat .. but dat means dat ive sinned like 40 sumthin timez .. eh .. i dont regret it .. i love pussy wtf iz wrong wit dat ? .. i styll believe in god .. and i am religious but sex iz just a part of life .. if u dont go through it .. well u suck .. :)

how can u consider yourself religious, when u deliberetly disobey God's teachings? if you want God to forgive u of your sins, u have to be WILLING to change ur habits.

[titebuoy]

Didnt Jesus die for the sins of all men & women? Plus, the bible was written by man and I dont think that everything in the bible is accurate and how did King James write his version of the bible and he couldnt read or write? Cant believe everything...think for yourselves! ^^^^^
Is this guy a christian? naw but seriously it was just a post questioning morality dont take it personal guy.

[Baller101]

o well its 2 late now anyways so y stop

[blad3x]

True stuff.

[InspectahDeck718]

propz man, God Bless...

[macki123pi]

Yes. I will not state my opinion because people act really emotional about the subject....

[da_microfone_destroya]

Yes. I will not state my opinion because people act really emotional about the subject....

hey come on...just tell me about ur belief

[Syck_Flowz]

I feel you on this one my nig.So props

[snowman1900]

IMO the importance of "God's teachings" is and has been declining steadily (when you see the (christian) religious influence during medieval times at the top) - and in this and the last century religion is becoming less and less important.

Ok, WHY? Back in the days (about 2000 years ago) ppl could explain very few things rationally - so they tried to explain it superhuman and created God as a result (i talk about christianity here). With the increasing scientific and social developments, we can explain many of these things rationally now - and for me,that's the best proof of the uselessness of religion in these times, TODAY.

And don't get me wrong - religion had (still has) a important function on us, I think of values like humanity and altruism. And when we didn't have a actual governmental authority it was probably the fear of God that scared off ppl to breach these values and commit crimes and shit...

But I don't believe in God, like i also don't believe in Moses receiving the 10 commandments by God and the wonders Jesus allegedly worked. People create(d) religion. And including wonders and superhuman powers prolly seems to make religion more appealing for ppl (and every religion wants to win pll over, doesn't it).

So, concluding - your thread has some sort of a point (risc of infections,adultary...) BUT please don't justify that with God, that just sounds too cheap to me, cause I don't let no alleged God limit my freedom in the borders of law (everyone has to decide for himself though in which values he believes)

If u believe in God and premarital abstinence, do it, it's your freedom - but that's nothing what every RN member has to read a.s.a.p

My opinion, let's just discussmy thots xactly

props

[lil_guyana_souljah]

atheism is not wrong...im catholic...but i believe that atheism is not wrong because the Lord gave us the freedom to think for ourselves and make decisions for ourselves...the only thing is they will find out that there is a God(only one) who is the Almighty...all religions will realize that their God's are all one (Allah is God, God is God, Yaweh is God

[da_microfone_destroya]

atheism is not wrong...im catholic...but i believe that atheism is not wrong because the Lord gave us the freedom to think for ourselves and make decisions for ourselves...the only thing is they will find out that there is a God(only one) who is the Almighty...all religions will realize that their God's are all one (Allah is God, God is God, Yaweh is God

ur catholic yet u believe atheism ISNT wrong??? wow big contradiction....

[Korokian]

thts so reall...

[LeRaP]

atheism is not wrong...im catholic...but i believe that atheism is not wrong because the Lord gave us the freedom to think for ourselves and make decisions for ourselves...the only thing is they will find out that there is a God(only one) who is the Almighty...all religions will realize that their God's are all one (Allah is God, God is God, Yaweh is God

I don't wanna discuss about the existence of God as that's something everybody has to believe in or not (I don't)...
but you got a good point - all these different names like Allah,God and Yaweh are just names and they all mean a superhuman being, thus probably the same -> also logical, as these three religions all got a common connection, each one is a little bit of a variation of the other one, they evolved from the same basic idea
problem though is that every religion still tries to allege that their god is the real and right one - and we saw and see the negative effects of this in our world

[da_microfone_destroya]

I don't wanna discuss about the existence of God as that's something everybody has to believe in or not (I don't)...
but you got a good point - all these different names like Allah,God and Yaweh are just names and they all mean a superhuman being, thus probably the same -> also logical, as these three religions all got a common connection, each one is a little bit of a variation of the other one, they evolved from the same basic idea
problem though is that every religion still tries to allege that their god is the real and right one - and we saw and see the negative effects of this in our world


for once u make sense :smh:

[Heightzfinest193]

that takes the fun out in life....you should live life to the fullest

[da_microfone_destroya]

thank you for all ur opinions in this thread

[ClOcKwOrK OrAnGe]

I dont care if am rude or if ya think am wrong. Their is a GOD. Wake up to all ya who said ya dont believe in GOD.

[da_microfone_destroya]

I dont care if am rude or if ya think am wrong. Their is a GOD. Wake up to all ya who said ya dont believe in GOD.

yeye props to u !!

[Spinstyle]

yeah and thinking about sex is a sin, too

and looking on asses is a sin, too

starin at boobies is sin... seriously

lol

[brazilianprankster]

Its all pretty interesting and all,but im hellbound anyways so might as well show the ladies a good time

[570jim]

I don't really agree, but prop'd you anyway

[ThuG_PuN]

lol good point playa.....but deeyaammm imma keep givin in to those temptations... ')

[da_microfone_destroya]

i hope y'all take this lesson seriously, especially during this time of year

[P*R*O*F*U*M*O*]

if thats true i guess pretty much everyone in the world is going to hell eh? lol

lol ^^^ bwoii if we believed everything the bible said we wouldnt even be chattin ere!!! whats da point of creatin sex if ure nt alowed to do it b4 marriage or whenever u feel like it.... its natural... feels good so wht the hell fuck dem hoes!!!!!!!

[da_microfone_destroya]

it's giving into satan's temptations ....use ur head

[Poetic_Dyme]

props

[medialab54321]

:smh:

[fireballerv1]

yeah thats real because of the diseases and unwanted births and stuff, i know people my age who were unwanted and put up for adoption, it makes me sad to see them now because they usually have problems.....

i dont know about myself for now i never was a huge christian

[jimmy_loo_tong]

stfu

[Thugmn3]

propzzz i agree with u

[anotherlevel_357]

We all goin to hell now.. Damn

[mdotwilliams44]

The explaination for why we shouldnt be having sex and what makes it a sin is completely wrong. If the reason for not having sex is judged by the risk of unwanted pregnancy and disease, but the disease is curable and the pregnancy is handled well then why should we not do it. If I get married to my babies mother then does that constitute fornication. If i cant get married before God because i dont believe in Him am i fornicating. What about all of Solomons different wives he was a wise man. for the record i do believe in God but i question these rules, because the laws of how to conduct yourself sexually have changed a great deal. So I question who and why these rules were created. But that doesnt change the fact that God gave you a life and a body and it should be protected and not treated selfishly, but if i love a girl and intend to be with her then I should be able to have sex with her. If she gets pregnant then that is fine, because i love her. I know she doesnt have a disease then i can do what ever with no risk. Those arguements dont hold up and they dont sound like they came from the same God throughout time but rather a changing opionion by people of what they think God may want. That is just peoples opinion no matter who those people were.

[da_microfone_destroya]

as a christian, u cannot question these laws on premarital sex. u either accept them or u dont because there cant be anything in between.
Islam forbids men and women to talk to each other (unless school or work related) because it leads to unwanted feelings. the only reason God in Christianity allows us to talk to women, is because God trusts that we will set our limits with them. how could u be 100% sure u would marry the girl? most likely the guy would state he loves the girl and hes going to be with her, and raise the child...but i honestly believe thats out of regret and sympathy. how many of these premarital pregnancies do u think are by accident?? probably a lot.

[mdotwilliams44]

as a christian, u cannot question these laws on premarital sex. u either accept them or u dont because there cant be anything in between.
Islam forbids men and women to talk to each other (unless school or work related) because it leads to unwanted feelings. the only reason God in Christianity allows us to talk to women, is because God trusts that we will set our limits with them. how could u be 100% sure u would marry the girl? most likely the guy would state he loves the girl and hes going to be with her, and raise the child...but i honestly believe thats out of regret and sympathy. how many of these premarital pregnancies do u think are by accident?? probably a lot.
I dont know if its that simple. I am a christian in the sense that i will strive for perfection through the Spirit and follow Christ's example and serve God. So certainly to do that, a lifestyle in which i have random sex would conflict with that attempt at christ's example. The problem i am having with what you are saying is the reasons as to why we shouldnt have sex with random people. Now it is well documented with in the Bible that God condoned sex with multiple women. he allowed men to have several wives which were more like sex slaves and servants than partners and equally treated members of a holy union as we believe marriage should be today. This conflicts with what paul later wrote to the Corinthians about one man should be with one women so who was right Moses or Paul? Both, This to me is an example of popular opinion shaping what is considered to be morality by men, but not nessesarily God's morality.
Now i am not condoning free sex with any partner, but the reasons that were given are not reasons coming from God because they change and God never changes. But what i am saying is that sexual sin is wrong for many other reasons. If i go out and have sex for the sole purpose of satisifying my desire then I am serving myself. A man cannot serve two masters you either serve yourself or you serve God and while I am serving myself I am not serving God and I am absent of his love and blessing. This is why sex is wrong, because of selfishness. But if i had ten women that i served and they served me and we moved closer to God together and there was no guilt lying or deceate then there is nothing wrong with that. It is the act of selfish sex wanton selfserving sex that is wrong. Just like gluttony, lyingl, stealing, you are being selfcentred and not a good servant.
But it is also said that no bad fruit can come from a good tree. This is true. If I have sex there are negative consequences that come from negative (selfish) actions. just like there are negative consequences that come from any bad acts. These consequences are what you outlined about pregnancy and disease, but pregnancy and disease themselves are not the reasons why it is wrong, they are just the bad fruits of the bad tree. Good sex produces good fruit such as: a closer bond, offspring and a good feeling in the pants:cheer:. So the results are not the reason or a punishment they just are Gods system of keeping the universe in balance with his unrefutable laws of Karma. If you do things with a bad heart bad things will follow. Even if those bad things are the same as the reward they are a curse if your heart is in the wrong place.

[B i o n i c]

props

[da_microfone_destroya]

I’m questioning ur choice of example. Bro, complete intimacy should only happen in a committed relationship. U accept the fact of multiple spouses, then you agree sex is to produce offspring. Would ANY child want to be brought into this world knowing his/her father has multiple spouses? U are misunderstood on the primary purpose of sex, a main example u give is: a good feeling in your pants? sex isn’t just to satisfy our desires, it should be a big step in a couples life. As well, a closer bond? sex without the intention of having children isn’t proper.
We need to support responsible behaviour, sex outside of marriage isn’t right no matter what the reasons you’re providing. It offends the dignity of marriage, and is against the moral law. Premarital sex is a sin up until the moment you are married. Read the new testament, it never says that if you're totally in love with each other and you're committed to each other and you're certain that you will get married and spend the rest of your lives together, that premarital sex is okay.
Consider the fact that there are many people who were engaged to be married, who expected to spend the rest of their lives together, but then broke up. Some of them gave their virginity to each other because they were certain that they were going to get married, and they ended up regretting that they gave up their virginity to the wrong person. Life is full of uncertainties, how can any woman lose her chastity, satisfy herself physically and then act as if she’s trying to become closer to God?

[LiVe PoEt]

IM JEWISH!

[onyxbutterfly]

Props for being brave enough to start this thread.
My post in just in regards to the initial post on that started this thread:
I agree but I also disagree. I agree because it does say those things in the bible, but I disagree because the bible has alot of contridictions. For instance as my husbands wife I am suppose to submit to him...That is what it says in the bible. So does that mean if he wants me to get on the floor and act like a dog I am going to do it? Nope....Bottom line IMO God knows that none of us are perfect and we all sin and have fallen short of the glory. He wants us to ask for forgivness. When we ask, he forgives and it is done and over with. It's all about acknowledging him.

True Christians dont judge.....

**Getting down off my soapbox, sorry if this offends anyone**


Onyx

[~God-Son~]

what is marrgie but words of a priest then two ppl saying i do?

[da_microfone_destroya]

Props for being brave enough to start this thread.
My post in just in regards to the initial post on that started this thread:
I agree but I also disagree. I agree because it does say those things in the bible, but I disagree because the bible has alot of contridictions. For instance as my husbands wife I am suppose to submit to him...That is what it says in the bible. So does that mean if he wants me to get on the floor and act like a dog I am going to do it? Nope....Bottom line IMO God knows that none of us are perfect and we all sin and have fallen short of the glory. He wants us to ask for forgivness. When we ask, he forgives and it is done and over with. It's all about acknowledging him.

True Christians dont judge.....

**Getting down off my soapbox, sorry if this offends anyone**


Onyx

sooo are u saying anyone can sin, then simply ask God for forgiveness? but there's more to it than that, we have to be willing to make a change in our life for the sake of God.
but if husband's were to say stuff like "get on the floor and act like a dog" that isn't allowed one bit, husbands have to love their own wives as their own bodies.

the wife is to submit to her husband in everything that is right and lawful. so basically, the wife is under no obligation to do whatever the husband wants, there are moral restrictions.

[da1nonly74]

propz but god should also kno that 98% of ppl will b doin this stuff neway tho

[da_microfone_destroya]

what is marrgie but words of a priest then two ppl saying i do?

marriage is a divine law of God

[mdotwilliams44]

I’m questioning ur choice of example. Bro, complete intimacy should only happen in a committed relationship. U accept the fact of multiple spouses, then you agree sex is to produce offspring. Would ANY child want to be brought into this world knowing his/her father has multiple spouses? U are misunderstood on the primary purpose of sex, a main example u give is: a good feeling in your pants? sex isn’t just to satisfy our desires, it should be a big step in a couples life. As well, a closer bond? sex without the intention of having children isn’t proper.
We need to support responsible behaviour, sex outside of marriage isn’t right no matter what the reasons you’re providing. It offends the dignity of marriage, and is against the moral law. Premarital sex is a sin up until the moment you are married. Read the new testament, it never says that if you're totally in love with each other and you're committed to each other and you're certain that you will get married and spend the rest of your lives together, that premarital sex is okay.
Consider the fact that there are many people who were engaged to be married, who expected to spend the rest of their lives together, but then broke up. Some of them gave their virginity to each other because they were certain that they were going to get married, and they ended up regretting that they gave up their virginity to the wrong person. Life is full of uncertainties, how can any woman lose her chastity, satisfy herself physically and then act as if she’s trying to become closer to God? [/QUOTE]"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman have her own husband". [/QUOTE]
Okay i hope you had fun with that. But in bold is everything that is either contradictory taken out of context, misquoted or not from the Bible. let me begin.
Would the child care if the father had multiple wives? well jacob( who the Lord was said to have blessed where ever he went), the other son of Isaac brother of Jacob, Esau had multiple wives. These are only two examples there are many more examples of the practice in the Bible, but i dont feel like researching them. Jacobs kids turned out fine actually jacob turned out to produce Joseph. If it was normal back then, do you think id seemed crazy to the kid? no, that is nothing but your opinion again.

deutoronomy 17:17 He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold."

as you can see in this passage The Lord according to Moses aloud kings to have Wives as objects but he says just not too many. He doesnt claim that God said only one he just says not too many. Paul later writes that you should have one man to a woman but Gods word according to Paul and God's word according to Moses differ. Hmmm. Who was right? they both were. The idea of marriage and what was acceptable for marriage had changed from the times of Moses to the times of Paul. They both claimed that these words are what God wants but God never changes so either one was lying or both were lying. But I say neither were lying. They were just speaking about what would bring honor to God and keep their people on the right and honorable path. All of these ideas about marriage have changed not God but the ideas from people. So if my idea of what is right is different than yours does not make either of us right or wrong but instead we just have a different perception of what sin is to God. But dont be arrogant and judge and say that everyone else has got it all wrong but you dont. Because as you can clearly see no one really knows what God wants but you can only be pure based on your own hearts desires not on your actions that other people can see. But others opinions do count because you want to show reverence to God.

Another thing that you attacked me on is about my examples. First of all they arent examples, they are results of sex. These things happen when you have sex. You get a good feeling in the pants, you get a closer bond with the person, and kids come out. So how can you critisize me for saying that. You act like God made sex without the knowledge of the benefits it can have on a relationship and bond. You act like it is a bad thing. It is a good thing when done unselfishly. When without the intent of satisfying your own desires but also to express your love and devotion to a woman.
Marriage has changed in the Bible so much so your definition of what marriage is needs to be defined first before you start telling others when they can have sex.

[mdotwilliams44]

sooo are u saying anyone can sin, then simply ask God for forgiveness? but there's more to it than that, we have to be willing to make a change in our life for the sake of God.
but if husband's were to say stuff like "get on the floor and act like a dog" that isn't allowed one bit, husbands have to love their own wives as their own bodies.

the wife is to submit to her husband in everything that is right and lawful. so basically, the wife is under no obligation to do whatever the husband wants, there are moral restrictions.
Now this is something that it never says in the bible. You need to read in corinthians when it outlines slave master, father son, and husband wife relationships. it never says to obey them when it is right and lawful. So if you are going to follow the Bible blindly then do it. The wife's duty to God is to serve the husband and the husbands service to God is to serve the wife but it doesnt have any clauses in there about when you can disobey the husband. It doesnt say to fight back or rebel EVER. So come on you sitting here nit picking everything that i am saying but you dont even have your scripture down like that. If the husband abuses the wife, is supposed to have faith and still obey his command and get down on the floor. But what now you wanna make your own stuff up and do what you think is right. that is exactly how the ideals of marriage changed from Moses to Paul. Public opinion and values changed and so do your views on what God would want. Its easy to do so dont be so fast to judge others. I know you are probably mad right now but you must first be humble and open to the idea that you are wrong about certain things or you will be blind to the Truth(capitalized Truth because God is the Truth) and you will accept things falsehoods to satisfy your own ego. Just a word of advice.

[da_microfone_destroya]

Look at Ephesians 5:24: “Wives must submit themselves completely to their husbands ‘just as
the church submits itself to Christ’” this verse is sayin the wife is to submit to her husband in everything that is right and lawful. the wife is under no obligation to disobey the law or neglect her relationship to God.
U make it seem as if the husband can do whatever he wants. if the husband is wise he will seek his wife's opinions, listen to her opinions and value her. only pride will make a husband think that he knows everything, and only selfishness will cause him to demand his own way. God says for the husbands to be devoted to their wives, provide the right atmosphere for them to grow in Christian womanhood, and shelter them from those things that would harm them or be too strenuous for them.
God enforces the laws to provide us with the protection wives need. Even take a look at Paul’s teachings, thoroughly look at what he’s trying to proclaim. Instead of commanding husbands to lead their wives, Paul instructs them to love their wives.

[blackboonie]

fornication is one of the devil's most powerful tools

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he does not exist

[mdotwilliams44]

Look at Ephesians 5:24: “Wives must submit themselves completely to their husbands ‘just as
the church submits itself to Christ’” this verse is sayin the wife is to submit to her husband in everything that is right and lawful. the wife is under no obligation to disobey the law or neglect her relationship to God.
U make it seem as if the husband can do whatever he wants. if the husband is wise he will seek his wife's opinions, listen to her opinions and value her. only pride will make a husband think that he knows everything, and only selfishness will cause him to demand his own way. God says for the husbands to be devoted to their wives, provide the right atmosphere for them to grow in Christian womanhood, and shelter them from those things that would harm them or be too strenuous for them.
God enforces the laws to provide us with the protection wives need. Even take a look at Paul’s teachings, thoroughly look at what he’s trying to proclaim. Instead of commanding husbands to lead their wives, Paul instructs them to love their wives.
I would hate to call you a hypocrite because i think your heart is in the right place but I do believe you are using double standards. You sat here and said what you said about marriage and you argued from the Bible word for word. You said that marriage must be observed verbatim(even though what you mean by marriage is debateable), but then you turn around and you try to tell me what God meant when he said something. You said that the wife is to submit to the husband but when the husband makes a bad choice she has grounds to disobey him. Now it never says that any where in the Bible. Anywhere. YOu justified that in your own mind because that seems right to you. But what it does say is that the wife should submit completely as the church submits itself to christ. Now there is never a situation in which it is alright for the church to question or to be grounds to move against Christ. Even though Christ is perfect and your spouse is not, you are not in a position to question Christ. Because Christ does say that you should accept him as a child. So a wife should follow her husband like a sheep or a child follows his parents. But you would try to justify he bible to fit your own beliefs. Now my friend i wont judge you but that is more dangerous than sex, because that is the true deception of the devil. He wants to make you think you can interpret. You look at that verse and you fit that to believe whatever it is you want it to beileve. And you took it out of context of the whole chapter. Again to me it sounds like you are too arrogant about your beliefs. You believe the things that you say absolutely which makes you absolutley wrong.
Sorry about that tangent but i detest when i see people manipulate and interpret Bible versus to fit their point or purpose(this happened to me when i was young). But in the second verse you spoke about the mans duty to his wife. I agree with you completely but that has nothing to do with the wife's responsibilty to the husband. Even if the wife is being abused or the child is being abused she should submit as if she were doing it unto Christ. This is what i see in this passage. I dont know if you can tell others what the Word means by something. All you can do is obey it and not justify it to fit your own purpose. Dont get your ego involved because you will see things that are not there to support your ego. You will be less likely to accept the Truth unless you are willing to accept the fact that your version of the truth is not Truth itself. Realize that.

[mdotwilliams44]

fornication is one of the devil's most powerful tools

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he does not exist
No self love is the only trick. IT is the only sin. And when you fornicate you partake in self love and worship.
but i agree it is a big temptation but if you dont value yourself and your own feelings above all else then that wont be a temptation.


And stop quoting usual suspects:cheer:

[bry]

i respect peoples beliefs but i fuck like a jack rabbit in heat

real talk.

[DaThrowed1]

good point but does it matter if you get divorced? and i cant get head from my girl man i dont know about all that but sex is sex it doesnt matter if you hit it from the front or from the back it still feels good lol but good post more ppl should know about this even tho most of them dont care
If you get divorced, you have to wait for her to find her a new man, so you can make a case for adultery. Then you can get remarried, but if you get a girl before her then you commit adultery.

[damix33]

hate to say it but fuck it, yo, i feel religion is just a way for rich people to control an keep poor people in check.. color, race all that shit don't matter only thing that has ever mattered in history is rich and poor .. don't forget as long as poor blacks whites browns an yellows are fighting with each other they'll never realize there being fuked hard by the rich... u can neg all u want that's just how i feel

[siccmayd480]

thats why I dont follow religion........

[da_microfone_destroya]

The wife may disobey her husband only if he commands her to violate God's law. if a wife disobey’s her husband to obey God's clear commands she must do it with love, humility, and respect. The verse I provided for u, I didn’t take it out of context. If a wife feels that her rights and needs are not being met, she has a right to do something. If she chooses to stay in this marriage, she must get appropriate help, or remain patient. If she feels that she can’t handle the situation emotionally and it will cause her to commit a sin by disobeying her husband, then it is best for her to seek help. The woman wasn’t made to be trampled upon by the husband, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved. Use your common sense, how can the wife do whatever the husband wills, even if it means sinning? The wife has to put God first in her life and any smart woman knows her limits. u make it seem like she has to give into his wrath whenever the husband pleases, but it's not like that whatsoever because the husband is SIDE BY SIDE with his wife but you seem to completely disagree with the fact of married couples being equals. God should be the number one priority in any woman's life, no husband or human being has the right to enslave anyone or make anyone bow down to their feet.

[mdotwilliams44]

The wife may disobey her husband only if he commands her to violate God's law. if a wife disobey’s her husband to obey God's clear commands she must do it with love, humility, and respect. The verse I provided foru,I didn’t take it out of context. If a wife feels that her rights and needs are not being met, she has a right to do something. If she chooses to stay in this marriage, she must get appropriate help, or remain patient. If she feels that she can’t handle the situation emotionally and it will cause her to commit a sin by disobeying her husband, then it is best for her to seek help. The woman wasn’t made to be trampled upon by the husband, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved. Use your common sense, how can the wife do whatever the husband wills, even if it means sinning? The wife has to put God first in her life and any smart woman knows her limits. u make it seem like she has to give into his wrath whenever the husband pleases, but it's not like that whatsoever because the husband is SIDE BY SIDE with his wife but you seem to completely disagree with the fact of married couples being equals. God should be the number one priority in any woman's life, no husband or human being has the right to enslave anyone or make anyone bow down to their feet.
1st- No where in any page or any verse in the Bible does it say that. Nowhere. Now you seem to think that you know something about the Bible that I dont well, show me where it says that the wife can disobey the husband under any circumstance. The only law God gave for a wife is to submit to her husband as to the Lord(ephesians 5:22) now it repeats this several times in this section but nowhere does it say that it is alright for the Wife to disobey. Because she cant obey her husband and sin at the same time. How could she sin against God if He told her to obey her husband.
2. Number 2 again it doesnt say that anywhere in the Bible. You are just saying what feels good and sounds good to YOU. If you were all wise and you could know what God wants maybe God would have had you write the Bible. Dont come on here telling everyone they are doing wrong but at the same time make up your own version of the Bible that is being hypocritical.
3. Using your common sense is not nessary if you are going to be obedient to God. Because it was common sense at one point in Biblical history for a man to have more than one wife. So common sense is just peoples opinion of what is right or wrong. So either use your common sense or the Bible. Dont just use common sense when it is convieniant for you to make a point. And certainly dont use the Bible when it is convieniant for you to judge others about thier sexual habits and why they shouldnt have it. (now i agree with you that people shouldnt just have free sex all the time but the reasons for why it is a sin is wrong because you clearly dont understand what a sin is so if you want to know just ask and i'll tell you or you can just read the Bible and see what Jesus had to say)
4. You are right. I do disagree. Couples arent equal in position but they are equal in importance. Each person in a family and relationship is equal, but men and women have different roles according to the Bible. Now in this day and age popular opinion says that it is alright for women to wear the pants, but in Biblical times the man was the head of the house hold. He made the descions. I agree with that because that is the type of house i lived in and it ran smoothly. But that is only my opinion and i am not going to sit here and say women have to live in any role, But that is becuase i dont judge others. BUt the Bible does say that the wife should be submissive to the husband and the husband should love the wife and serve her as he would himself. I like that and that is how my relationships are but I wont command others on what they should do becuase i am not God.
5. And according to the Ephesians and several places in the old testament you do have the right to enslave others. Read Ephesians 6:5 it says: Slaves obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart just as you would obey Christ. now i am sure you are going to tell me what a master should do in return, and they should be treated fairly but the fact that you are worried about what the master should do shows that you are focused on the wrong thing.

So you should read the bible more and understand that you are not speaking from the Bible but from popular opinion. So again dont be arrogant and foolish. Hear what i am saying. You are not being consistant and you dont understand everything that you are talking about. Dont have an ego because that will blind you to Truth. I am not Truth and I dont know Truth. But i try to learn and speak what Truth is.

[Rastafarian]

bla bla bla bla bla bla please shhh son...enjoy life stop fucking following what the bible says and shit...beleive in GOD but thats where it should end....after u die its over....enjoy life now...

[da_microfone_destroya]

bla bla bla bla bla bla please shhh son...enjoy life stop fucking following what the bible says and shit...beleive in GOD but thats where it should end....after u die its over....enjoy life now...

i appreciate ur opinion my brother...but its not over once we die. this life is only a test and God will decide our fate once we die, its either an eternity of paradise or hell.
as followers of God we must spread the word, because we all have a chance to make it to heaven and we must strive to teach all our fellow human beings on earth.
(mdotwilliams better not disagree with me on this one :smh:)

[Rastafarian]

my nigga,hahahaha,what can i say? really religious people like you dont listen to what others say....but i will state my opinion,i used to think like you until i realized life is alot more simple than you think,ive had sex hundreds of times and im not married,am i going to hell? im a good person,i work hard,i help my people out,im a sweet lover to my woman,i never killed anyone or stole or envied,but im going to hell? what about people who never learned about this? are they going to hell cuz theyre innocent of what they didnt learn? dawg....open your eyes....Religion does nothing but Divide....1 God only.

[da_microfone_destroya]

i honestly wouldnt know if you would go to hell, as long as u repent of your sins and pray from the heart then it puts u in a better position. and im sure ur living a righteous life, but just putting in extra effort to pray would benefit ur soul a lot. keeping in mind there's different levels of heaven, dont u want to attempt to make it to the highest level of heaven and be among the prophets?

[Rastafarian]

i honestly wouldnt know if you would go to hell, as long as u repent of your sins and pray from the heart then it puts u in a better position. and im sure ur living a righteous life, but just putting in extra effort to pray would benefit ur soul a lot. keeping in mind there's different levels of heaven, dont u want to attempt to make it to the highest level of heaven and be among the prophets?
im sorry homey but i just dont think after u die theres heavan and hell,you should read the Mayan Prophecies,it teaches u something Alot more Logical,there is 1 GOD only,1 Creator,adam and eve is bullshit 1st of all,God created evolution,dinosaurs were extinct because when humans developed-they wouldnt get along with them,they were heading for self destruction so God ended theyre world and started ours...remember...MEN like U and ME wrote the bible...not God...the rule of pre-marital sex was created to prevent young people from contracting diseases...only made to SCARE US...no ones going to hell or heavan...u live and u die..period.

peace :]

[mdotwilliams44]

Da_Microphone: you never responded to my last response. Do you admit that you were wrong? I know the answer to that question you never will because you will justify it in your young mind until you learn what i know for yourself.

But on another note. I neither agree nor disagree with you and Pharaoh about the after life. I just dont think that it matters. Asking what will happen in the after life is like asking your employer before you get the job how much you get paid and when you get a raise. It just doesnt matter. If you have purity of thoughts and action good things will follow and everything in the universe is in perfect balance. So God will reward your right thoughts with right results. Whether that means reincarnation or eternal peace or heaven. Nothing goes without reward.

And Micro- where the hell are you getting this stuff about there being different levels of heaven and hell. What have you been reading the divine comedy or something?

[Rastafarian]

different levels of dimensions? possibly,i think there are 12 to be exact

[da_microfone_destroya]

lol mdot im not going to say i am wrong, i've read multiple times in the past certain parts of the bible to back up my claims. even if i take the time to track these bible verses u will still obviously disagree with what i have to say because u already have ur own views thats fine tho. but i admit u made some good points from reading ur last post. i too am trying to learn and speak what truth is, i've only read certain gospels within the old testament im more knowledgable on the new testament. i dont think neither of our views will change, it really seems like ur arguments are getting repetitive now. i aint being foolish, im just speaking of biblical facts ive read and studied .

[VeX™]

they say heavens for church go'ers and hell is for the heathens/
so ima just wyle the fuck out while im breathin/

first time 50 cents lyrics made sense to me.

[onyxbutterfly]

sooo are u saying anyone can sin, then simply ask God for forgiveness?
Nope I am saying everyone has and will sin. Everyone. I know that there is more than just asking God for forgiveness. I believe you must be sincere in prayer and you must repent. However, we were made in his image. Therefore none of us are perfect, IMO we cant just cut and dry say that because someone has had premarital, oral or anal sex that they will go to hell. If Moses was a murderer and he heard God's word and changed his ways can't any sinner? Any man regardless of what he has done is welcome in God's home, but he must start w/ asking for forgivness.
I think that the points that you have made are valid, these are just my beliefs.


Onyx

[mdotwilliams44]

lol mdot im not going to say i am wrong, i've read multiple times in the past certain parts of the bible to back up my claims. even if i take the time to track these bible verses u will still obviously disagree with what i have to say because u already have ur own views thats fine tho. but i admit u made some good points from reading ur last post. i too am trying to learn and speak what truth is, i've only read certain gospels within the old testament im more knowledgable on the new testament. i dont think neither of our views will change, it really seems like ur arguments are getting repetitive now. i aint being foolish, im just speaking of biblical facts ive read and studied .
Please do track down the Bible versus, hell go get your preist, pastor, deacon, minister, reverand or theologian of all colors shapes and sizes to argue with me. Not because i think that i am right but because i want to be wrong. Not a little wrong but really wrong. I want someone to convince me that everything you have said was completely true. I want to understand everything. I hunger for knowledge. And my views probably would change if you weren't speaking so much from opinion. Nothing i have to say conflicts with the main themes of the Bible, which is spreading love to all and losing self to serve the One True God. I do this with the understanding that the minor details and nitpicking of the law is exactly what Jesus spoke against when he spoke to the Pharisees. He spoke against judging others and following men and following rules with no substance and spirit behind them. He spoke of losing want and gaining love. These are the things that i take from the Bible that i know to be true through out time and space.

My views will forever change. I never hold on to my own knowledge. I never trust my own mind. I trust it only to its limits but i never trust it to expand on itself. I never trust my own knowledge to stem out and become something new. I just expect old ways of thinking to be torn down and new greater more Godly ways of thinking to beproduced. I will change if you can show me how to tear down my mental box on what you are saying, because with no offense intended i can clearly see that my ability to see things clearly is greator than yours. No offense but I have seen all points of view and have defended my point of view but you have never really taken the time to hear the doctrine in which i possess that is self-evident and really doesnt require a holy book. So until you are willing to hear all sides of the case as i have you then please dont judge.

[Sands212]

its funny cause some ya saying all this evil is driving us crazy when really organized religion and the rules is what is driving people nuts

[R. Yung Hoodz]

christianity is a dumb religion, it was made up by a bunch of lazy jews who wanted no rules

[r3w1ndz]

damm...iz this a beef thread :eek:

[Rastafarian]

my motto:



Live one day at a time and trust in ONLY yourself.

[brilex]

alright i have to let it all out
i was raised as a christian but i dont go to churh no more cuz a teacher once told me
that if i dont want to be in it, that its better not goin than being a phoney, so
look at this from this point of view
if u believe in budah or something else, if u were raised believing that and u never even get to know about other religions, according to chritianity u go to hell!! now, is it me or is that a little too much?
i mean what if christians we wrong u think is ok for u to go to hell just cuz of that
NO!! it's not ok, life is about trying to enjoy it as much as u can and try to do the right thing
if u live like that never doin nothin bad to people and try ur best to live a fufilling life, are u supposed to go to hell just cuz u didnt believe something that a bunch of guys wrote a long time ago???
fuck that, i listened to that to much and right now i dont believe that thing anymore
i know that there is a god but im not sure that christianity is correct

[brilex]

just look at this way when you see something goin on today and u explain to your friend a week later not everything u tell him is exactly of how it occurs right??? now imagine this that has been around for more than 2000 years!!! that storymust have changed a lot!!!!!!
so dont try to tell me that what the bible says is true.
what chritians say is so stupid that when i was little i was told that if i drop my bible that was a SIN, now come on
i believe it and thats not right to tell kids lies like that.
if ur christian is ok, but plizz stop trying to tell people that if ur not christian ur goin to hell
cuz what that does is makin me is wish that christianity is wrong to see what u'all are goin to do.

[mdotwilliams44]

just look at this way when you see something goin on today and u explain to your friend a week later not everything u tell him is exactly of how it occurs right??? now imagine this that has been around for more than 2000 years!!! that storymust have changed a lot!!!!!!
so dont try to tell me that what the bible says is true.
what chritians say is so stupid that when i was little i was told that if i drop my bible that was a SIN, now come on
i believe it and thats not right to tell kids lies like that.
if ur christian is ok, but plizz stop trying to tell people that if ur not christian ur goin to hell
cuz what that does is makin me is wish that christianity is wrong to see what u'all are goin to do.

I have been lied to and decieved by christians too. And what is ironic is that Jesus was during his life time condemning the religious figures and the jews for structuring their religion in such a way that makes people believe that certain people are not welcome with God. He broke down all of the religious rituals and taboos and just said follow me. He tore down the curtians that people used to divide the Arc and the people. He connected people to God directly through the Spirit. But 2000 years later you have Pastors, Reverends and Priests again seperating people from God. They wear fancy robs and speak in fake voices. They judge others and make them confess their sins to them. They make rituals and rules and they exclude people from the house of God just like the Pharisees that Jesus was condemning. I am a Christian not in the sense of a religious follower or a church goer but in the sense that I follow Christ and Worship the One True God.
There is only One. He is the Same God that some call, Allah, Buddah, OR the Tao. It doesnt matter what name you have for Him, but if you serve the Creator of all things and Master of the Universe with your actions and thoughts directed at doing what YOU believe in your heart of hearts to be honorable then how could he deny you a reward. I dont know what that reward will be but if you act unselfishly and honorably in your lifetime then how could you be punished.

So forget all of the doctrine and create your own doctrine with in your heart as i have. Because if you earnestly seek God as I do then he will give you wisdom enough to sift through all of the deciet within Christianity and see the Bible for what it is. And it is not THe Absolute Truth, Because the Bible says that God is the Truth, and Word. Well the bible was written by imperfect mortals so how could they write God? We know that the Bible is just a reflection of Gods Spiritual Principles that govern the universe. It would take a lot from me to write down all of the ones that have been uncovered to me but if you ask me to share what i have learned i cant refuse your request.

[chrismb]

ahhhhh shut the fuck up

[KINGTEASEO]

THATS WHY WE REPENT OUR PETTY LITTLE SINS..

[West_Coast_KING]

Real Talk...

^^^

[::+SKeMe_On_MaH_MiND+::]

damn im seri0usly goin str8 2 hell den ..

[BaLL3R4CaL1]

rofl

[da_microfone_destroya]

alright i have to let it all out
i was raised as a christian but i dont go to churh no more cuz a teacher once told me
that if i dont want to be in it, that its better not goin than being a phoney, so
look at this from this point of view
if u believe in budah or something else, if u were raised believing that and u never even get to know about other religions, according to chritianity u go to hell!! now, is it me or is that a little too much?
i mean what if christians we wrong u think is ok for u to go to hell just cuz of that
NO!! it's not ok, life is about trying to enjoy it as much as u can and try to do the right thing
if u live like that never doin nothin bad to people and try ur best to live a fufilling life, are u supposed to go to hell just cuz u didnt believe something that a bunch of guys wrote a long time ago???
fuck that, i listened to that to much and right now i dont believe that thing anymore
i know that there is a god but im not sure that christianity is correct

you make a good point i have to somewhat agree in some of the stuff u said. props... but personally i believe atheists, hindus, buddhists and other idol worshippers will be punished the most.
sure, yes u can do good deeds.... but who are your good deeds going towards??? a statue thats supposed to respresent God? i really think just good deeds cant earn you God's mercy if you don't believe in Him the right way He's supposed to be worshipped.

[mdotwilliams44]

you make a good point i have to somewhat agree in some of the stuff u said. props... but personally i believe atheists, hindus, buddhists and other idol worshippers will be punished the most.
sure, yes u can do good deeds.... but who are your good deeds going towards??? a statue thats supposed to respresent God? i really think just good deeds cant earn you God's mercy if you don't believe in Him the right way He's supposed to be worshipped.
You dont respond to ME any more. You just talk to everyone else. I'm hitting with the points. but any way


First Dont Christians have their Idols?....The cross for one. The Jesus Fish, The Huge Cathedrals and Churches. These are all material things that symbolize Christians relationship to God just as much as any buddist statue. I mean if we are going to judge them for trying to materialize there worship with gold and bronze and iron then we should examine Christianity for the same treason. But no it is always easier to critisize others that we dont understand.

And you are not to decide how He's supposed to be worshipped. Because you can only worship God truly with your heart. Anyone can worship with their mouth and their hands. Anyone can wear a shirt that says i love jesus and anyone can have a Fish on their car. But this is a Bible versus:... But only God can judge a man's heart...
So only God can judge and tell who has earnestly sought him and the Spirit that connects all faithful servants of Him. And you are right it is not enough to do good deeds. But you must be a good tree. Because a good tree does not bear bad fruit. Occasionally a bad tree produces a good fruit no and then but a good tree never produces a bad fruit. Even if the actions are bad the results will be blessed because God reads your heart and sees that you are a good tree. a Good heart leads to good thoughts which lead to good actions which lead to good works which please the Master and reflects His presence inside of you. But a person who worships themself and mortal things cannot produce fruit which reflect the inner peace of eternity which the Master possesses this is what is meant by the kingdom being inside of you.

[Ransom Note]

i agree wit da nigga on dis he got a point.

[da_microfone_destroya]

And you are not to decide how He's supposed to be worshipped. Because you can only worship God truly with your heart. Anyone can worship with their mouth and their hands. Anyone can wear a shirt that says i love jesus and anyone can have a Fish on their car. But this is a Bible versus:... But only God can judge a man's heart...
So only God can judge and tell who has earnestly sought him and the Spirit that connects all faithful servants of Him. And you are right it is not enough to do good deeds. But you must be a good tree. Because a good tree does not bear bad fruit. Occasionally a bad tree produces a good fruit no and then but a good tree never produces a bad fruit. Even if the actions are bad the results will be blessed because God reads your heart and sees that you are a good tree. a Good heart leads to good thoughts which lead to good actions which lead to good works which please the Master and reflects His presence inside of you. But a person who worships themself and mortal things cannot produce fruit which reflect the inner peace of eternity which the Master possesses this is what is meant by the kingdom being inside of you.

see thats wat im saying, ur too repetitive with wat u say. my opinion is, if u truly love God... and recognize that God is your creator, shouldnt you take the time and put God first in your life to pray ??? sure anyone can wear the iced out cross around their neck and say they're a follower. But i think anyone who truly loves God must take time out of their day to pray directly to him. God deserves to be praised.
Satan will bring u to Him in any way possible, if Satan strays people away from the One true God....yet that person still lives their life trying to do good, i still believe that person is misguided.
Let me ask u, what is your sect? if u are Catholic, u will allow a priest to forgive u of ur sins. doesnt this show that a priest (fellow human being) has the right to judge our life?so what is wrong with someone like me trying to teach someone to pray and worship God more regularly.

[Dramacydal]

deleted

[Dramacydal]

"Imagine how much better our world would be if God’s pattern for sex was followed: fewer sexually transmitted diseases, fewer un-wed mothers, fewer unwanted pregnancies, fewer abortions."

:smh:

so god created disease 2 ruin our lives?

[mdotwilliams44]

see thats wat im saying, ur too repetitive with wat u say. my opinion is, if u truly love God... and recognize that God is your creator, shouldnt you take the time and put God first in your life to pray ??? sure anyone can wear the iced out cross around their neck and say they're a follower. But i think anyone who truly loves God must take time out of their day to pray directly to him. God deserves to be praised.
Satan will bring u to Him in any way possible, if Satan strays people away from the One true God....yet that person still lives their life trying to do good, i still believe that person is misguided.
Let me ask u, what is your sect? if u are Catholic, u will allow a priest to forgive u of ur sins. doesnt this show that a priest (fellow human being) has the right to judge our life?so what is wrong with someone like me trying to teach someone to pray and worship God more regularly.
I dont know why me being repetative is such a problem. I am repetative because i want to get my point across. the Bible is repetative too. But any way you didnt really disagree with anything that i said. So that is a good thing you are starting to realize that all you need is a earnest heart and to desire to please God. That is all i am saying. I am just saying that you should tear down all of the rules and judgements and taboos and religion. And get back to Spirituality and Love. Prayer is a good way to get in connection with the Holy Spirit. Meditation and deattachment to worldly things is another good thing that Jesus preached. When combined all that is left is Truth. So keep on pushing your understanding up and never believe that you already know Truth because no one does. Especially not me.

[brilex]

you make a good point i have to somewhat agree in some of the stuff u said. props... but personally i believe atheists, hindus, buddhists and other idol worshippers will be punished the most.
sure, yes u can do good deeds.... but who are your good deeds going towards??? a statue thats supposed to respresent God? i really think just good deeds cant earn you God's mercy if you don't believe in Him the right way He's supposed to be worshipped.do u hear what ur saying??!!!!
da mcrophone im sayin his directly at u
when u do somethin ur supposed to do it cuz u feel like it dont do it just so u will get to god and shit
and BTW it doesn't matter if u do it towards a cow if u may like the thing is doin the right things doesn't that counts??!! cuz if it doesnt i dont think i want to be a chritian anymore cuz u ppl are the worst

[brilex]

just cuz smebody doesnt believe what u believe, u think they have to go to hell???!!! get the fuck outta here
if its like that that u and all the others christians think U guys should be the one that should go to hell!!!

cuz i do think there's a god up there that controls and made everythink but give me a break ur not practicin the christianism the way it was found or at least the way u wan everybody to think u r

[mdotwilliams44]

Brilex I Agree with you about much of what you are saying but the message that i am trying to send. Is that only God can judge what is in a man's heart. So in the same token that Christians have no right to judge you, you have no right to judge All christians. Now there are certain things in christianity that is a shame. Such as the materialism of the church and the seperation suchas: baptists, lutherans, jehovas witnesses, episcapalioans, Catholics, AME, ..... and the list goes on but they are all seperate not like Jesus intended. There is a bunch of other things that need to change within the religion before i can claim that all that follow will go to heaven, but that doesnt mean that all will go to hell either. Those who follow God and try to serve him with all of their hearts and those who love their brothers like they love themselves will be okay no matter what religion.

[R. Yung Hoodz]

da_microfone_destroya_ , dont neg me for stating my opinion, u think in real life when u dont like what someone says u can neg them, i personally have studied a lot of religions and christianity in my opinion is by far the most uncronstructed and easy religion, this is because it was created by a bunch of christs followers after jesus died, they were all a bunch of jews who wanted other people to believe in jesus so they created christianity,

u know why they created it, cuz it had practically no rules, and all the other lazy ass jews who wanted no rules but to believe in god, went and joined them,

why should u care what u do in your life anyway if on your death bed a priest will come and ur sins will be freed, does that make any god damn sense, hell fucken no it dosnt, this is just my opinion, if u belive in christianity fine thats your decision and i couldnt care less,

religion was invented to give hope, the idea of God was created to fill in for the mysteries of science which couldnt be explained back in the day, but the more we advance in technology, the less u think god does everything dont you, think bout that

[HMmm]

yea thats your beliefs, stop trying to spread that shit.. people can make their own minds up.. damn i believe in god but these people who just dont shut the fuck up bout it pisses me off

[LeRaP]

but personally i believe atheists, hindus, buddhists and other idol worshippers will be punished the most.


daaamn, how ignorant is that??
you don't respect other religions, so why should people respect yours?
btw you have absolutely NO knowledge about these beliefs...so how can you judge them

how can a atheist be a idol worshipper, when he doesn't believe in a god? concerning this question - do you believe in multiple gods the ancient Greeks or the Romans believed in? I suppose no and you're absolutely sure about that...Aight why should now people believe actually in YOUR God??And what happened to ppl before YOUR religion arised (about 2000 years ago) ? did they all go to hell because they didn't follow a religion that didn't even existed when they lived (because HUMANS created it about 2000 years ago and not GOD at the beginning of the university). Or do you still believe god himself wrote the bible?
Some ppl need to start thinking - I know you were educated a christian and that's why you believe in it....

Just got to cite Immortal Technique - Leaving the past "It's a bad decision to blindly follow any religion" - download this track (if that's not a sin) and listen to this verse a couple of time and then please please start to think for yourself
Other than that, your opinion is not much better than a suicide bomber justifying murder of unbelievers with the Koran - they also believe (or call it "made to believe") that they're going to heaven for that, cause you can read everything in so called "holy books" :smh:

Peace!

[dell2008]

nigga i beilieve in GOd AKA Jesus..atheists, hindus, buddhists i don't believe in that shit but i respect in wat they believe..even though i don't agree with it

[dmac82]

Props I Enjoyed Readin

[byimer]

ay man..preach if u want but ima 2...
u remember on boyz in da hood were dough was like ''if there was a god, why he let niggas get smoked every night?''...tell me that, why black people are dyin over sum bullshit, why we invadin other countries witout a dam reason, and why niggas is Still gettin smoked/tortured/beaten from east 2 west, down south, to tha midwest, germany, china, and everyone else in the world livin 2 die.....

[byimer]

oh by the way....im far from married, and thats not stoppin me frum getting 'oral sex' and 'fornicating'....if i wake up 2morrow and fornicating still sounds good....im doin it

[REALTALK87]

Thread gettin heavy play

[mdotwilliams44]

ay man..preach if u want but ima 2...
u remember on boyz in da hood were dough was like ''if there was a god, why he let niggas get smoked every night?''...tell me that, why black people are dyin over sum bullshit, why we invadin other countries witout a dam reason, and why niggas is Still gettin smoked/tortured/beaten from east 2 west, down south, to tha midwest, germany, china, and everyone else in the world livin 2 die.....

I have a good answer to this question but i will post it tommorrow. You have good logic though but i have better logic that proves that this is not a valid argument. This logic doesnt come from the Bible persay (although peices of it can be found scattered throughout it so neither Da_microphone or you can honestly deny its logic) but stop directing all of questions to him guys. No offense but Da_Microphone you dont know everything you need to know at this point to answer these questions. I dont have all of the answers (because if i did i would be God) but i do have a good understanding of all religions and i am not a follower of any religion but rather a general spirituality that is true for all religions. My answer will take some brain power to construct but i do have one and i will get back at yall (byimer, and Realtalk) with my logical rebutle which is pragmatic and even the non-religious will be able to appreciate, because i am non-religious (and so was Jesus and Sidhartha but that is for another discussion).

[LeRaP]

I have a good answer to this question but i will post it tommorrow. You have good logic though but i have better logic that proves that this is not a valid argument. This logic doesnt come from the Bible persay (although peices of it can be found scattered throughout it so neither Da_microphone or you can honestly deny its logic) but stop directing all of questions to him guys. No offense but Da_Microphone you dont know everything you need to know at this point to answer these questions. I dont have all of the answers (because if i did i would be God) but i do have a good understanding of all religions and i am not a follower of any religion but rather a general spirituality that is true for all religions. My answer will take some brain power to construct but i do have one and i will get back at yall (byimer, and Realtalk) with my logical rebutle which is pragmatic and even the non-religious will be able to appreciate, because i am non-religious (and so was Jesus and Sidhartha but that is for another discussion).

yeah,I wanna hear your answer too
Byimer spreads wise talk, with all the injustice going on in the world, it's quite doubtful that a "good God" would allow this - I mean okay, some ppl might try to justify that God only judges ppl after death concerning their deeds during lifetime and then you go to hell or heaven.
But sounds a litte bit too easy and cheap for me...it fits too good in their justification as NOBODY can prove that there's life after death.
And the 3 major religions (apart from Far Eastern religions/philosophies) all evolved between 2000 and 3000 years ago - why wasn't there religion before (if religion claims to be absolute, it has to be there since day 1, but that's not a fact, it was created later)? Most ppl believe it because of being educated to do so, since their childhood.
If I would now create a religion saying have sex as much as you want and you'll go to a paradise full of bitches, then maybe in 2000 years ppl also believe into that and think it's true

But I concede, it's easier for someone to just believe in a superhuman being - if you have are unlucky (e.g. poverty) then you can relate to God, pray, hoping and thinking he'll help you some day....but damn, fuck that, that's an excuse for doing nothing - stand up and do something against your situation, nothing will change through praying.
Same thing about "brotherly love" or altruism...don't pray for it, that changes nothing -> go out on the street and help them poor folks that have nothing to eat, god damn it

[Freaky-G]

dis a bunch a bullshit..
the original bible texts got edited for years by greedy white people i dont believe that shit no more
1 third of all the people in the world live in poverty, an the vaticon got 422 billion dollars get the fuck outta here, I believe in GOD but i don't believe in man telling me whats wrong or right i aint got no problem wit fuckin', I fuck all i fuckin want there aint no 'shame' for me & i don't feel like doing something wrong so FUCK U & your believes. and HELL is some bullshit too, it doesnt exist, people created it to make other people fear the rules 'n shit it's obvious. Religion killed so many people & created so much fear for so fucking long, and the christians were the worst, back then they killed more people than muslims terrosist do now so fuck all that shit. Only thing that can save us is global love & helping eachother, not this resentment for other believes because u think ur believe is the right one FUCK THAT.
I don't believe I KNOW

[LeRaP]

dis a bunch a bullshit..
the original bible texts got edited for years by greedy white people i dont believe that shit no more
1 third of all the people in the world live in poverty, an the vaticon got 422 billion dollars get the fuck outta here, I believe in GOD but i don't believe in man telling me whats wrong or right i aint got no problem wit fuckin', I fuck all i fuckin want there aint no 'shame' for me & i don't feel like doing something wrong so FUCK U & your believes. and HELL is some bullshit too, it doesnt exist, people created it to make other people fear the rules 'n shit it's obvious. Religion killed so many people & created so much fear for so fucking long, and the christians were the worst, back then they killed more people than muslims terrosist do now so fuck all that shit. Only thing that can save us is global love & helping eachother, not this resentment for other believes because u think ur believe is the right one FUCK THAT.
I don't believe I KNOW

word

[Straight_outta_Compton]

American people are sooo fucking ignorant!!! there is no god niggaz!! anyone really trustin in god is a fucking bitch ass to me! grow up folks!! :girly:

[byimer]

im sayin...mdot good looks but it's not da big...after goin 2 chatholic an christian skools...i really doubt in general there's a good god who let so much bad shit happn...y he let so many peepl die 4 no reason? but mdot dont gotta answer...me an da principal talked 2 many timez...and now im in a public skool, where people smoke, drink,and fuk on campus....we got athiests who will hate u if u believe in god, people inbetween like me...who hold no grudges, but really doubt in religion....because then i would live my life by a book mad niggas wrote 2000 years ago

[mdotwilliams44]

Alright there are a few of you that question if God exists based on the evil of the world. To summarize what you are saying i will quickly.

1. If a perfectly good god exists he hates all evil
2. If this perfectly good god is also all-powerful then he can stop all evil.
3. Since there is evil in the world either god is not all-good, not all-powerful or does not exist.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This argument is good and logical, it is not the first time I encountered it. I have ran across this problem of evil in my own head and it has caused me to question whether or not a God really could exist. But after much meditation and inward reflection I have pragmatically concluded that this argument has too many holes and is fundamentally off center with the idea that a God could exist. so here is my argument:

1. Evil of action is nothing more than selfishness. The word sin and the word selfishness are the same thing. There is no such thing that is both an evil act and an unselfish act. (test this theory if you want to)
2. Without evil we would not have a choice between good and evil. There is always choices in what you do, you can either chose to do something good, less good or evil. If we didnt have that choice we would be like the animals mindless and instinctual.
3. If every action was good and there was no wrong done ever there not only wouldnt be a knowledge of evil, but there wouldnt be a knowledge of anything good happening. there has to be darkness for you to be able to recognize that light exists.
4. God allows evil to exist, but nothing is done without balance and without punishment. Even if you dont believe that a god exists, science will tell you that every force exerted has an equal and opposite reaction.

I think that logically covers evil that we as people do, but there are some that are probably reading this and saying well what about Katrina and the tsunami that was an act of nature did all of those people have to die and create so much suffering. Here is my response.

Death is not evil. Untimely deaths are not evil. They are just parts of life. Death is natural and it is a part of the cycle of life that we must all have to face. Now, what is evil is the holding on to one's own life and treating one's own life as if it is more important than anyone elses, because it is selfish to love your life and hold on to your love one's life unnaturally. I know that most people will disagree with me on that, but just think about this. We say 9-11 was one of the worst days in history when over 3000 people died in the suicide bombings. katrina about 5000 are estimated to have died. if you combine that, that is only 8000 deaths. more than 25000 people die of starvation everyday. and not only that 200,000 people died from the nuclear bombings in japan. Now if death is evil how come people celebrated when the bombs were dropped and about 67 times the death happened than 9-11. It is because death itself is not a evil, what is evil is the way people react to death. They either charish it too much or they dont care enough. Life is precious dont get me wrong but if i die two miles down the road some is having dinner and not giving a shit. I am sorry for those people in Katrina who dont have homes and are without much, but a hurricane is not evil, but it is our reaction to it that is either good or evil. Bad things happen to good people and bad people alike that does not mean that these things are evil, because hurricanes happened in america before people had arrived are those hurricanes still evil then?(if you respond answer that question)

Now I dont believe that God sent that hurricane to destroy New Orleans. I believe there is a balance in the world that is being disturbed by the things we do. Environmental scientists will agree that we have effected the climate and that effects our atmosphere which will effect things like hurricanes. Eastern religions call this Karma, or the law of cause and effect. Nothing causes itself so that hurricane must have first been caused by something. Now what that cause was i dont know, but I believe God does. I believe that God created the world to be in perfect balance(scientists call this idea of perfect balance the laws of Thermodynamics, which are eirely similar to the laws of Karma) and everything that happens is first caused by something else. So if in 1918 you die of lung cancer and you smoke cigarettes, but you dont know why because there is no info to tell you, then you will probably say this is God punishing me. But if you are alive today and that same thing happens you will probably say 'well it was a nice run while it lasted i should have put the cigarettes down but what can you do'. God doesnt change. That is why it is important to have knowledge so you can understand the relationship of cause and effect in all areas of life. But dont blame it on God being evil or not existing, because you dont understand how he created the universe.

[mdotwilliams44]

there are also many of you who question religion and more specifically Christianity. First of all i would like to thank you for speaking what you feel is the truth and thinking outside of the box. I myself do not believe in religion because religion is man made. I believe God is perfect in every way and has never changed throughout the course of time. Religion has though and I men have. I dont follow men to find God. I believe that God is everywhere and in all things. If you want to find God the best place to look is within your own heart(not literally and i dont believe that men are God). You can look in a telescope in a microscope or in a Bible and God will be there. I personally follow Jesus, because i believe he embodied the Spirit of God that all good men have embodied. He spoke many times about not following the religion. He never had a church building or made people wear fancy clothes or he never even had a house of his own. He never wore fancy robes and he would wash other peoples feet. He was fearless and brave because he understood that he was serving the Truth. He didnt care whether or not the Pharisees( the jewish leaders who acted holy and wore long beautiful robes and judged other men) liked it or not. He called them hypocrites. He said that all men were welcome to God not just the jews. But 2000 thousand years later his message has been twisted and mutilated to where we have the Pope and Other Pastors and Reverends wearing long fancy robes, and telling people that only Christians will go to heaven. They judge others and create tradition. I hate tradition because none of that crap came from God. God doesnt care whether or not you wear jeans or a suit to church. he made us naked. Religion is crap, but spirituality is very real. It is the thing that connects us all together. And by reading the Bible you can learn about Spirituality the Christian way. I believe that only Christians will be rewarded when they die, but my definition of a Christian is a little different than most peoples. I believe a Christian is anyone who is willing to throw away all of the crap that holds us back from being good, and just seeks God and tries to serve Him. How could God punish someone who is trying to serve Him. I have more to say about true spirituality. but i will leave it at that for now until someone has a question for me about it or disagrees with me then i will refine and get more specific about my beliefs.

[LeRaP]

Bad things happen to good people and bad people alike that does not mean that these things are evil, because hurricanes happened in america before people had arrived are those hurricanes still evil then?(if you respond answer that question)

Now I dont believe that God sent that hurricane to destroy New Orleans. I believe there is a balance in the world that is being disturbed by the things we do. Environmental scientists will agree that we have effected the climate and that effects our atmosphere which will effect things like hurricanes. Eastern religions call this Karma, or the law of cause and effect. Nothing causes itself so that hurricane must have first been caused by something. Now what that cause was i dont know, but I believe God does.

yes that's right, hurricans happened before ppl had arrived there. That's why I would describe such phenomenons as simple random occurences. When multiple, specific pre-conditions come together, they happen. I don't call that God, I call that a certain coincidence in the atmosphere that happens from time to time (during certain months the probability that a hurricane occurs is higher than in others, all based on scientific research). They also happen in specific areas (e.g. tropical areas) only - all things that let me conclude that there's a physical and biological background behind it, because if God decided to create them to be a counterbalance to something else, they could occure everywhere, because what would be God's interest to let only specific parts of the world be confronted with hurricans?
I mean you can also argue that he did that on a specific purpose that you don't now. But before I believe in something I don't even know, I prefer to believe what seems to be the most rational explination, namely that hurricans are natural occurences with a physical and biological background (and chemistry,etc...). Period. It's a fact that they become increasingly worse in their effect, linked to global warming linked to CO2-emissions for instance. If you hurt the natural cycle through exceeding emissions, it's foreseeable that this will change the cycle one day. Again, I don't need no God to create a balance, that's simply the general cycle of our world. If you kill someone, then most likely you can expect to be be lynched by his tribe in archaic communities or to be convicted and put in jail in advanced, state-run communities. Why? Because you hurt them and they want to hurt you back, revenge. That's in the nature of our world. We can call it Karma. PPl live in communities and that's the result of it, otherwise we wouldn't be able to live together. That's why it's like that....again, no God needed (sociology). So I don't understand why everybody needs a god when thinking can be so easy.

But dont blame it on God being evil or not existing, because you dont understand how he created the universe.
Nobody can prove that he created universe, so why should I believe he created it or that he even exists. Normally, if I don't see something, hear something,etc...I conclude it's not there. And to say he's everywhere and in all things is principally the same like to say he's nowhere and in no things.

But I agree with you concerning the big problem of selfishness (what causes every problem), and that's a human problem. The question is always what's more important for one - yourself or the community of ppl.
I also agree with you views on religion in general and respect you for building your own opinion in place of believing all the shit you're told by the environment, though I don't agree with everything you say (probably not possible in such a field like belief).

I belief in altruism (we all live in a community, so we need to cooperate), in the self responsibility of everyone for his deeds and in life. A life that we should live for us, not for religion (though respecting everyone else). I prefer to do something good in place of praying for something good.

[mdotwilliams44]

yes that's right, hurricans happened before ppl had arrived there. That's why I would describe such phenomenons as simple random occurences. When multiple, specific pre-conditions come together, they happen. I don't call that God, I call that a certain coincidence in the atmosphere that happens from time to time (during certain months the probability that a hurricane occurs is higher than in others, all based on scientific research). They also happen in specific areas (e.g. tropical areas) only - all things that let me conclude that there's a physical and biological background behind it, because if God decided to create them to be a counterbalance to something else, they could occure everywhere, because what would be God's interest to let only specific parts of the world be confronted with hurricans?
I mean you can also argue that he did that on a specific purpose that you don't now. But before I believe in something I don't even know, I prefer to believe what seems to be the most rational explination, namely that hurricans are natural occurences with a physical and biological background (and chemistry,etc...). Period. It's a fact that they become increasingly worse in their effect, linked to global warming linked to CO2-emissions for instance. If you hurt the natural cycle through exceeding emissions, it's foreseeable that this will change the cycle one day. Again, I don't need no God to create a balance, that's simply the general cycle of our world. If you kill someone, then most likely you can expect to be be lynched by his tribe in archaic communities or to be convicted and put in jail in advanced, state-run communities. Why? Because you hurt them and they want to hurt you back, revenge. That's in the nature of our world. We can call it Karma. PPl live in communities and that's the result of it, otherwise we wouldn't be able to live together. That's why it's like that....again, no God needed (sociology). So I don't understand why everybody needs a god when thinking can be so easy.


Nobody can prove that he created universe, so why should I believe he created it or that he even exists. Normally, if I don't see something, hear something,etc...I conclude it's not there. And to say he's everywhere and in all things is principally the same like to say he's nowhere and in no things.

But I agree with you concerning the big problem of selfishness (what causes every problem), and that's a human problem. The question is always what's more important for one - yourself or the community of ppl.
I also agree with you views on religion in general and respect you for building your own opinion in place of believing all the shit you're told by the environment, though I don't agree with everything you say (probably not possible in such a field like belief).

I belief in altruism (we all live in a community, so we need to cooperate), in the self responsibility of everyone for his deeds and in life. A life that we should live for us, not for religion (though respecting everyone else). I prefer to do something good in place of praying for something good.
Alright i get the picture. You have to see things to believe them and you are very logical. I have answers for you too. i will number and respond to things that you said in bold in sequential order.

1. Alright you have described to me the general cycle of our world in this example of hurricanes. Well why does everything need to be in balance? You have described to me the way the world works, by cycles. There is a cycle for everything(ex. water cycle, nitrogen cycle, phosophorus cycle....) but you can not logically tell me how inorganic things seem to work in such perfect order. How does the Earth and other planets know to revolve around the sun and all of the other planets know not to collide with the earth? how does the sun know to heat everything and supply the earth with all of its energy and the core of the earth to heat everything that the sun cant touch. Why does heat rise? well I know why but why doesnt it go left or right.
I know i rambled there and i had some kind of kiddy questions but the point is that all science can do is tell me how the physical world works, but it cannot tell me why it has gone through all of the trouble of existing in such perfect balance on its own in the first place. I mean if a scientist were to ask me how i thought the universe was started I would respond that God created everything through a process, including the scientific laws that you study. He would respond 'well who created God' and i would respond well He was always here. the scientist would laugh at me. But if i were to ask him how everything was created he would say well there was a supercondensed peice of matter that exploded billions of years ago and everything was created from it. then i would ask him well how did that peice of matter get there, and he would respond 'well it was always there' and i'd laugh at him. the point is all science can tell me is the process in which things work but it can not tell me the source or the reason for the processes at all.

2. Thinking is limited. You can only think to the point in which you can sense things. If a baby was born with no senses. I mean he couldnt taste, touch, feel, see, or hear. then would that baby have a thought in his head when he turned 18? the only answer you can arrive at logically is, no.(David Hume) and if he could think then what language would he be thinking in?(answer that question but you can only answer rationally :cheer:)
my point with that is just because something is not senseable does not mean that it is non-existant it just means that rationality and empiricism has its limits. It is good to think about what you believe in logically but do not mistake what you think is true, for the Truth. Truth is something seperate from fact and opinion it is something in the middle and outside both.

3. Any true scientist will tell you that God, based on evidence, can not be proven, but also any true scientist will tell you that God, based on evidence, can not be disproven either. You can disprove the Bible or stories that men have made up about God, but you can not disprove God. Steven Hawking (the most intelligent man on earth) even said that it is more likely that God exists than not based on evidence that he, a confirmed atheist, had gathered. He was a scientist and a athiest and humanist for over 30 years but after much thought and research discovered logical evidense that the likely hood of there being a God is greator than not. He wasnt set out to prove or disprove God but he just listened to reason.

4. Me too. I dont believe in just going through the motions. Jesus was everywhere in the streets trying to help people and preach to people the Word. He wasnt just sitting in a church or telling people to give him money, he was out there doing for others and loving others. I believe in two rules love others as you love yourself and serve God with all of your heart. Thats it that is my only belief.

[mdotwilliams44]

LeRap, here is something else to think about.

1. Everything physical has a cause.
2. Nothing Physical can cause itself.
3. Everything physical was caused by something else.
4. A Causual chain or Cause and effect chain can not be of infinite length.
5. There must have been a first cause.
6. The First Cause is called God.


This is a completely logical argument no church praising or Bible versus, just a sound pragmatic argument. I think you should appreciate it. Please dont disregard this immediately becuase that would be the very thing that you despise in CHristians. Dont let the ego of your views get in the way of understanding. My ego many times has made me justify my stance to the point where i would accept facts that werent true and omit truth to fit it in to my views. Just look at it completely scientifically and you'd have to say that God is worth searching for even if through a microscope or through your own heart.

[R. Yung Hoodz]

forgetting the rest of my previous argument why christianity is an easy way out and a very unconstructed fake religion...and on to god i see

well like i said in my last post

the more scientists discover, the less god seems to exist to you dosnt it, thats why the egyptians created a sun god, a rain god, a fire god, with technology, we now know what these things are, how they came to be, what they are composed off, back then, the explanation was GOD,

they are very little mysteries left, such as, how the universe was created, is there a master force that controls the universe, heaven, hell, afterlife, and these are the questions that keep the idea of GOD alive, when these things are proven false or discovered, u think the idea of GOD will still exist...THINK BOUT IT BEFORE U GO N POST IGNORANT SHIT

[LeRaP]

1.Yeah, you're right, now that's a problem. Though it's clear that these physical cycles
laws actually exist, the question is day one and how THEY actually began to exist. To
confess, this is a very difficult question , because it deals with the topic of infinity. And
thinking about that, you go to the limits of your brain. The universe is said to be infinite.
Now one argumentation could be to say - if the universe is infinite and has no borders or
edges then it's also quite possible that it has no beginning or end, meaning, it was always
there. By the way, that's something Stephan Hawking said and I just found researching, immediately
when I thought the same thing. This answer is also dedicated to your second post. Concerning
your example about somone claiming God created the universe and a scientist claiming the Big Bang
created the world - you can believe both and it brings no good results in my opinion.
If you don't believe the scientist, stating there was piece of matter out of nothing, you can't
believe the God theory neither. Who says that there was a God before that? The logical consequence of the need of a first "impulse" to get everything physical started has not to be God (not every mystery in science is already solved). God,what did he do before
he created the universe, just chillin'? What sense or what had he in mind creating that universe
of unbelieveable size - if he just wanted to create us humans, why did he create the billions
of other planets and not just the earth alone?And as we perceive the (I think traceable) evolution
theory, we evolved from animals, so God couldn't have had the goal to create humans from day
one (except you believe in Adam and Eve story, what I of course don't think, as you don't seem
to see God really related to the christian religion). So i don't see no point in that.
But this is something that excesses the capacity of my brain, because I'm not able
to picture infinity, as we basically only know the meaning of limitation in our
world. But when the universe is indefintite in space, it's also possible to be indefinite in
time, meaning that it was always there. Let's wait for the future and hear what science will have to offer. Still - if there was something before - we don't know but if God actually created the world, he seemed to have stepped back of his job to maintain his creation.

2.That's right. Rationality has it's limits. (To the question -> it can't think, so the
presumption that it could think is not feasible :D). But even if there was a God that created the universe (what I don't believe, but I'm also unable to prove that, look at nr1), I
still can't see his impact on our world today. Examples - holocaust,2 world wars,poverty (please
just look at africa), war (still), etc...People do the worst things and God is actually not intervening.
If he was so strong to create a universe than he would certainly have the power to help everybody,
come on, he should give ever one of the 8 billion men a paradise life. WOuld be no problem
for him and if he was that good, why doesn't he do this for us? So even if he existed, I
don't see no need to pray to him.

3.Of course, something on a level like God can't be really proven or disproven because it's
on a level beyond our imagination to prove him (how to imagine a superhuman being?). That's
the basis of every religion, that it can't be disproven (good for it) - something that's
not perceivable CAN always exist but the question is, DOES it exist?
I still can say for me, weighting all my thoughts up, I come to a conclusion that stands
against the existence of God.

4.That's definitely cool! If you believe in God or not is your personal opinion but Concerning Jesus, I still have my doubts about the realness of
the picture we got from him, I mean the gap between historical Jesus and biblical Jesus.
If Jesus did what he is said to have done by the bible, I agree with you.
But honestly - fuck that...wheter you/I believe or not, it's what you do that counts.
If you are good to others, you're a respectable person, no matter if you
justify that with God or with charity/altruism or whatever....

Peace out

[LeRaP]

forgetting the rest of my previous argument why christianity is an easy way out and a very unconstructed fake religion...and on to god i see

well like i said in my last post

the more scientists discover, the less god seems to exist to you dosnt it, thats why the egyptians created a sun god, a rain god, a fire god, with technology, we now know what these things are, how they came to be, what they are composed off, back then, the explanation was GOD,

they are very little mysteries left, such as, how the universe was created, is there a master force that controls the universe, heaven, hell, afterlife, and these are the questions that keep the idea of GOD alive, when these things are proven false or discovered, u think the idea of GOD will still exist...THINK BOUT IT BEFORE U GO N POST IGNORANT SHIT

some ppl will still be some pussies, needing to cry to a higher being when something doesn't go their way. :cheer: But you're right, that was also my major point in a post on page 3 or something like dat....
We're in a new era where technology and science is growing unbelievably fast. And with these ration explainations, I don't need no God no more.
The answer is in your head and heart and not in the sky.

[mdotwilliams44]

forgetting the rest of my previous argument why christianity is an easy way out and a very unconstructed fake religion...and on to god i see

well like i said in my last post

the more scientists discover, the less god seems to exist to you dosnt it, thats why the egyptians created a sun god, a rain god, a fire god, with technology, we now know what these things are, how they came to be, what they are composed off, back then, the explanation was GOD,

they are very little mysteries left, such as, how the universe was created, is there a master force that controls the universe, heaven, hell, afterlife, and these are the questions that keep the idea of GOD alive, when these things are proven false or discovered, u think the idea of GOD will still exist...THINK BOUT IT BEFORE U GO N POST IGNORANT SHIT
1. You are the greatest kind of hypocrite, not only do you not practice what you preach, you also judge others. You sit here and get mad at Da_microphone for judging but you come on here and speak about something that others believe in with no respect. I dont care what you talk about but before you start talking about peoples beliefs maybe you should practice your own.

2. This is completely false. The Belief or disbelief has always existed. But as the facts get more sophisticated so do the stories. just like science. Science always disproves itself and disproves its theories. So neither science or religion hold up the test of time completely. So be scientific about the whole thing and disbelieve both science and religion.
But what conclussion you could have came to was that as science constantly replaces old facts and beliefs. we get closer to God. I believe (and Plato believed) that God was Truth(or the Absolute). So as new facts present themselves they dont prove or disprove God because God is the source of all science. He is the finish line that science is trying to reach but never will. God has just complete knowledge of all cause and effect chains, thus He is all powerful. Maybe you should have read my other posts. But i wont waste my time arguing with someone who has no respect for any other ideas other than his own.

3. So you can call me ignorant if you want, but I clearly know something about what i am talking about, maybe if you tried to learn and kept an open mind to the existance of God you could see the logic in his existance, but maybe not you are too egotistical and proud and thus foolish to consider any one else as knowing something that you havent thought of. So if you arent going to hold a real conversation and you just want to talk crap then keep your mouth shut.

[bigserg818]

i agree but you do know that no one in this world is pure and the temptations to do sinful things is very high

[mdotwilliams44]

science without spirituality is lame; Spirituality without science is blind.

Albert Einstein

my feelings exactly.

[DJ Bless One]

propz

[doniced2]

I HEAR YA

[R. Yung Hoodz]

1. You are the greatest kind of hypocrite, not only do you not practice what you preach, you also judge others. You sit here and get mad at Da_microphone for judging but you come on here and speak about something that others believe in with no respect. I dont care what you talk about but before you start talking about peoples beliefs maybe you should practice your own.

r u serious, where did i say that i have something agaisnt christians, do u know how Christianity came to be or even all of your laws and boundries and such if u r christian, all i said was Chrisitanity is an easy way out to your belief of heaven and living a religious life if you choose to live one, i wasnt bashing christians for their belief of it, i was bashing chrisitanity, i dont got nuthin against you if you belive in it, i personally do not and im stating why u fool, shit, puttin words in my mouth

ima state it again for u idiots who dint hear what i said the first time,

Christianity was created by Jesus's followers, (all jews), they wanted other people to follow them so they made Christianity, basically Judaism with no rules, so all the lazy jews went and joined them for a way out of a hard religion into a easy religion, then the new testiment is a whole lotta pervision and shit

i dont care if u belive in chrisitainity, i dont, and i dont judge you if you do

[mdotwilliams44]

[QUOTE=LeRaP]1.Yeah, you're right, now that's a problem. Though it's clear that these physical cycles
laws actually exist, the question is day one and how THEY actually began to exist. To
confess, this is a very difficult question , because it deals with the topic of infinity. And
thinking about that, you go to the limits of your brain. The universe is said to be infinite.
Now one argumentation could be to say - if the universe is infinite and has no borders or
edges then it's also quite possible that it has no beginning or end, meaning, it was always
there. By the way, that's something Stephan Hawking said and I just found researching, immediately
when I thought the same thing. This answer is also dedicated to your second post. Concerning
your example about somone claiming God created the universe and a scientist claiming the Big Bang
created the world - you can believe both and it brings no good results in my opinion.
If you don't believe the scientist, stating there was piece of matter out of nothing, you can't
believe the God theory neither. Who says that there was a God before that? The logical consequence of the need of a first "impulse" to get everything physical started has not to be God (not every mystery in science is already solved). God,what did he do before
he created the universe, just chillin'? What sense or what had he in mind creating that universe
of unbelieveable size - if he just wanted to create us humans, why did he create the billions
of other planets and not just the earth alone?And as we perceive the (I think traceable) evolution
theory, we evolved from animals, so God couldn't have had the goal to create humans from day
one (except you believe in Adam and Eve story, what I of course don't think, as you don't seem to see God really related to the christian religion). So i don't see no point in that.
But this is something that excesses the capacity of my brain, because I'm not able
to picture infinity, as we basically only know the meaning of limitation in our
world. But when the universe is indefintite in space, it's also possible to be indefinite in
time, meaning that it was always there. Let's wait for the future and hear what science will have to offer. Still - if there was something before - we don't know but if God actually created the world, he seemed to have stepped back of his job to maintain his creation.

well I erased your 2nd 3rd and 4th part of the post because we have found some agreement other than I dont believe that it is all about what you do in your 4th post. But i will talk about that later.

1. the universe can not have gone on forever unless the second law of thermodynamics is false. The second law states that basically that all energy in the universe follows the process of entropy which when energy is released it lowers to lesser forms of energy until it eventually becomes heat.
Now at first this doesnt seem to make sense to me but if all matter is energy(which it is) then all matter will eventually be turned into heat. this idea is called heat death. So unless the law is false or this is an almost probable end to the universe. Obviously this would take billions of years for all of the energy in the universe to turn to heat but if the universe was infinite then it would have happened. So there are several ways that are provable that universe is not permanent and thus not infinite because anything with an eventual end had a beginning.

2. I really dont have a logical answer to that other than to tell you what i believe. I believe that God created the Universe and the universe eventually dies and creates a new universe forever and ever in a cycle just like everything else works. Just like the water cycle the universe recreates itself. This would explain why you could believe that there is no God. But the idea of things being cyclical to support life(not just human life because there is a great chance that there is rational life elsewhere) must suggest that inorganic objects can move to an end. But science tells you that inorganic objects cant think. So i believe that God controls all of the inorganic functions of the universe by creating the laws to facilitate organic growth.

3. I also believe that God exists in a world that is beyond our senses. It would be like a person who has been blind sense birth trying to percieve what sight may be. I believe there are other dimensions that we can not perceive. This is where faith comes in and I believe in it and serve it. Christians call it the Holy Spirit, Taoists call it the Tao, it has many things but i believe in Spirituality that is beyond existing reason. I cant get you to believe in it, because you dont. Everything you believe is not logical but you believe it because you feel that it is true in your heart. I am the same way i have just gone in a different direction.

And no i dont believe in adam and eve. I believe in evolution but I believe that the instinct that organic beings have to survive and grow is a God given process which can never be understood scientifically. Why the universe goes through all of the bother of existing is an answer that only a belief in a Creator could answer, and why life is cherishable is another Question that science can never answer.

[mdotwilliams44]

r u serious, where did i say that i have something agaisnt christians, do u know how Christianity came to be or even all of your laws and boundries and such if u r christian, all i said was Chrisitanity is an easy way out to your belief of heaven and living a religious life if you choose to live one, i wasnt bashing christians for their belief of it, i was bashing chrisitanity, i dont got nuthin against you if you belive in it, i personally do not and im stating why u fool, shit, puttin words in my mouth

ima state it again for u idiots who dint hear what i said the first time,

Christianity was created by Jesus's followers, (all jews), they wanted other people to follow them so they made Christianity, basically Judaism with no rules, so all the lazy jews went and joined them for a way out of a hard religion into a easy religion, then the new testiment is a whole lotta pervision and shit

i dont care if u belive in chrisitainity, i dont, and i dont judge you if you do
You did judge when you called the shit that was being posted ignorant. And you also called Christianity a fake religion. So come one nigga dont try and act all cool now. I dont have a problem with you stating facts and even your opinion but dont poke fun at what others believe. that is all.

And what you are saying is true it was created by Jews. Jesus was a Jew. But how can you state what others intentions were 2000 years ago. You simply dont know what they were thinking. It can be your opinoin, but you dont KNOW. so dont call people idiots unless you are speaking fact. You are just saying your opinion dont be so fuckin arrogant and think that your opinoin is something special because your opinion is as good as mine.

[R. Yung Hoodz]

thats what i learned in school from reading primary and secondary sources, and i dint mean to call it fake, i jus meant to say that i dont believe in it because of why it was created, and i wasnt judgind chrisitans, i was judging ur comments, so thats diff, but w.e like i said i respect yall opionoins

[mdotwilliams44]

thats what i learned in school from reading primary and secondary sources, and i dint mean to call it fake, i jus meant to say that i dont believe in it because of why it was created, and i wasnt judgind chrisitans, i was judging ur comments, so thats diff, but w.e like i said i respect yall opionoins First of all what you said about the religion is nothing more than your opinion. I dont care how well formulated your opinion is it is still an opinion. Because to correct you, the definition of a primary source is a firsthand or eyewitness account of an event. So unless you saw jesus die on the cross or you kicked it with peter and paul you dont have a primary source. You may have secondary sources but those are almost always subject to others opinions. So you are basically saying that people shouldnt believe in christianity because it is opinion that is treated as fact, but you're beliefs as to why, is based on opinionated sources. So be consistent about the whole thing and say whats really going on. You dont like Christianity because you dont believe just like Jesus said you would but you do believe some dudes that wrote the secondary sources without questioning their motives and this is more logical for you to do? But Dont try to act like you are analyzing facts because the fact is you cannot judge the intentions of Jews 2000 years ago and to think that you can is as ridiculous as any story that you make fun of in the Bible. Dont work on double standards because i am too smart for that and i can see right through it home boy. Come correct with your arguments and if you dont know how to argue then i can coach you.

So i dont know the Truth but i dont try to act like my opinions are better than anyone elses, I feel that i am right but i cant say for certain that everything i say is true and that others dont have it right too.

[R. Yung Hoodz]

the bible is a primary source, the declaration of independence is a primary source, a quote from a mans mouth is a primary source, i respect ur opinion but, a primary source is something from that time, or a document from that time, ect ect.

[mdotwilliams44]

the bible is a primary source, the declaration of independence is a primary source, a quote from a mans mouth is a primary source, i respect ur opinion but, a primary source is something from that time, or a document from that time, ect ect.
Alrightso what in the Bible supports your claim? unless you used another primary source. and what was that primary source if you dont mind me asking?

[LeRaP]

[QUOTE=LeRaP]1.Yeah, you're right, now that's a problem. Though it's clear that these physical cycles
laws actually exist, the question is day one and how THEY actually began to exist. To
confess, this is a very difficult question , because it deals with the topic of infinity. And
thinking about that, you go to the limits of your brain. The universe is said to be infinite.
Now one argumentation could be to say - if the universe is infinite and has no borders or
edges then it's also quite possible that it has no beginning or end, meaning, it was always
there. By the way, that's something Stephan Hawking said and I just found researching, immediately
when I thought the same thing. This answer is also dedicated to your second post. Concerning
your example about somone claiming God created the universe and a scientist claiming the Big Bang
created the world - you can believe both and it brings no good results in my opinion.
If you don't believe the scientist, stating there was piece of matter out of nothing, you can't
believe the God theory neither. Who says that there was a God before that? The logical consequence of the need of a first "impulse" to get everything physical started has not to be God (not every mystery in science is already solved). God,what did he do before
he created the universe, just chillin'? What sense or what had he in mind creating that universe
of unbelieveable size - if he just wanted to create us humans, why did he create the billions
of other planets and not just the earth alone?And as we perceive the (I think traceable) evolution
theory, we evolved from animals, so God couldn't have had the goal to create humans from day
one (except you believe in Adam and Eve story, what I of course don't think, as you don't seem to see God really related to the christian religion). So i don't see no point in that.
But this is something that excesses the capacity of my brain, because I'm not able
to picture infinity, as we basically only know the meaning of limitation in our
world. But when the universe is indefintite in space, it's also possible to be indefinite in
time, meaning that it was always there. Let's wait for the future and hear what science will have to offer. Still - if there was something before - we don't know but if God actually created the world, he seemed to have stepped back of his job to maintain his creation.

well I erased your 2nd 3rd and 4th part of the post because we have found some agreement other than I dont believe that it is all about what you do in your 4th post. But i will talk about that later.

1. the universe can not have gone on forever unless the second law of thermodynamics is false. The second law states that basically that all energy in the universe follows the process of entropy which when energy is released it lowers to lesser forms of energy until it eventually becomes heat.
Now at first this doesnt seem to make sense to me but if all matter is energy(which it is) then all matter will eventually be turned into heat. this idea is called heat death. So unless the law is false or this is an almost probable end to the universe. Obviously this would take billions of years for all of the energy in the universe to turn to heat but if the universe was infinite then it would have happened. So there are several ways that are provable that universe is not permanent and thus not infinite because anything with an eventual end had a beginning.

2. I really dont have a logical answer to that other than to tell you what i believe. I believe that God created the Universe and the universe eventually dies and creates a new universe forever and ever in a cycle just like everything else works. Just like the water cycle the universe recreates itself. This would explain why you could believe that there is no God. But the idea of things being cyclical to support life(not just human life because there is a great chance that there is rational life elsewhere) must suggest that inorganic objects can move to an end. But science tells you that inorganic objects cant think. So i believe that God controls all of the inorganic functions of the universe by creating the laws to facilitate organic growth.

3. I also believe that God exists in a world that is beyond our senses. It would be like a person who has been blind sense birth trying to percieve what sight may be. I believe there are other dimensions that we can not perceive. This is where faith comes in and I believe in it and serve it. Christians call it the Holy Spirit, Taoists call it the Tao, it has many things but i believe in Spirituality that is beyond existing reason. I cant get you to believe in it, because you dont. Everything you believe is not logical but you believe it because you feel that it is true in your heart. I am the same way i have just gone in a different direction.

And no i dont believe in adam and eve. I believe in evolution but I believe that the instinct that organic beings have to survive and grow is a God given process which can never be understood scientifically. Why the universe goes through all of the bother of existing is an answer that only a belief in a Creator could answer, and why life is cherishable is another Question that science can never answer.

Problem is, we don't now what happend billions of years ago. We can only put up possible theories (maybe the law of thermodynamics is wrong in that regard and will be replaced some day). But I'm still confident in science to solve also this mystery when time is ripe.
Aight let's conclude that argumentation reaches its limits regarding this topic, you either believe in god or you don't. What I still don't comprehend though is, why you're now thankful for God (he exists in your opinion) - after your argumentation he created universe and it's laws. Aight cool, that already happened, now he seemed to have retired, but still, what sense does it have for you now to do so? Heaven? How do you know what he wants you to do?
He doesn't give any revealing clues, does he?
Concerning cherishability of life - that's IMO not something that was there from day one. Look at archaic cultures where only the tribe was valuable and others had no laws (enemies). The view that life is cherishable developed, because otherwise we as humans (the dominating beings on earth) wouldn't be able to live a good life and would prolly eventually destroy ourselves (atomic bombs,...). Most important offical documents related to that, like the human rights originate from the last centuries.

pz

[mdotwilliams44]

Problem is, we don't now what happend billions of years ago. We can only put up possible theories (maybe the law of thermodynamics is wrong in that regard and will be replaced some day).

But I'm still confident in science to solve also this mystery when time is ripe.

Aight let's conclude that argumentation reaches its limits regarding this topic, you either believe in god or you don't.

What I still don't comprehend though is, why you're now thankful for God (he exists in your opinion) - after your argumentation he created universe and it's laws. Aight cool, that already happened, now he seemed to have retired, but still, what sense does it have for you now to do so? Heaven? How do you know what he wants you to do?
He doesn't give any revealing clues, does he?

Concerning cherishability of life - that's IMO not something that was there from day one. Look at archaic cultures where only the tribe was valuable and others had no laws (enemies). The view that life is cherishable developed, because otherwise we as humans (the dominating beings on earth) wouldn't be able to live a good life and would prolly eventually destroy ourselves (atomic bombs,...). Most important offical documents related to that, like the human rights originate from the last centuries.

pz
1. To disregard the law thermodynamics makes your argument look just as bad as when someone who claims that the Bible is absolute truth but only looks at the new testament but dismisses the old, either you believe in scientific discovery or you dont. You cannot say that science is wrong about its laws and still argue from the side of science. you cant pick and chose because science pointed you in the direction of a Creator. That is like when Da_microphone was disregarding some of the things that the bible wrote but still claiming that it was absolute. You cant just pick and chose which laws and theories you are going to believe and argue from. You have to admit that the universe is finite based on the evidence at hand or you come up with new logical evidence that points to the universe being infinite. when wont admit that you may have been wrong you are no better than a crazy hypocritical Chrisitian who picks versuses out of the Bible to preach about, but disregards the rest of the versuses. Admit science is either all speculation or admit that it is all completely true, but dont back out of the corner of science and start questioning a law's merit when the law points to something that you didnt want it to point to(i.e a creator). that is me arguing from a scientific law not a theory or an opinion, but a law just like gravity. So either you believe that science points to the truth based on logic or you dont. That is foolish( i dont mean to name call but you have to see what you are doing for what it is. You are justifiing your point but you arent looking at the facts).

2. Why can you have so much faith that science will answer these problems? That isnt scientific to assume that a scientist will discover anything.

3. First of all I dont have an insentive for serving God. I dont believe or disbelieve in an afterlife of anyform. Reincarnation is possible, Heaven and Hell are possible and eternal peace is possible. I dont know which one is real because i have never died. And truthfully I dont really care. I think that worrying about what will happen in the afterlife is like a new employee coming into work on his first day and asking when he will see a promotion and raise. It doesnt really matter. But I believe that there is a knowable God, that represents all that is Quality. There are differences in Quality in all things. Even in science there is facts that are Quality. Facts that are broader or more general and can be applied to more things are of high quality and are researched with more ferver. Facts that are either microscopic or macroscopic are of more quality than regular sized things. This difference in Quality of all things is the difference in all things. There is Quality of thought and Quality of action and Quality of motives. The closer you get to Pure Quality the closer you are to God. So me serving God can be summed up in The higher Quality of Thought action and Deed i am the better servant i am to God and Quality or Truth or Jesus or Buddah or Allah or the Tao. They are all the same idea of perfect Quality rapped into one being.
As for the clues that we get. Well when you are a kid who tells you that Ice Cream is of better Quality than broccolli. No one has to you just know. You can see the level of Quality in all things. You know Quality in thought and action by how much peace the thought or action brings you when you complete it. Selfishness always brings no peace to you. This is the price and punishment of sin. Now why this is true, Why selfishness is never rewarded is what i believe to be a Law of God, or what some call the Hand of God punishing the guilty. That is how you know what God wants you to do. No religious doctrine needed. No Bible to tell me how i am supposed to feel. If having multiple wives feels right to me and it is natural then there is nothing wrong with it unless it brings a disturbance to my Spirit. Laws are man made. Spirituality is in all of us and we can find the Truth without looking. But when you look to find for yourself you will never find it and that Spirit inside of you will die and to me this is worse than hell. And if you dont understand the Spirit then what i am saying may sound ridiculous but if you do and you are in touch with the eternal Spirit of Quality then the feeling that you get from serving it is heaven on earth because it is peace.

4. back to argument(enough of my views on religion) the fact that you are saying that animals have always had a survival instinct proves my point that there is a God. How could inorganic molecules combine so perfectly to produce the instinct in the tiniest ameoba to survive and adapt. How do these molecules (if they are not directed by a higher power and a creator of law) know to produce beings which grow through such a perfect process. Why not just never have existed or after the first one existed and died just stop trying. Why reproduce. After an animal dies why is it important biologically for that animal to have something of the same species survive on. This is the same question as why did the universe go through all of the bother of existing in the first place. You can tell me the process (which i already know) like any other scientist but to even answer this question you would have to step outside the boundaries of empirical evidence and would imply some dogmatic belief that is outside of the realms of scientific discovery and into the realm of philosophy and Spirituality.

This is my peice for the day. Have fun responding.

[mdotwilliams44]

Alright so what part in the Bible supports your claim that the people that created are lazy jews who just didnt want any rules? or did you use another primary source. and what was that primary source if you dont mind me asking?
R. Yung Hoodz Did you quit or are you ever going to come back with an answer? if you cant atleast just admit that what you are saying is your opinion and you have no right to judge others beliefs. I am not a Christian persay but that is the religion of my father that you are insulting, so at least justify or admit you have your own beliefs that are not based on fact but rather opinion.

[LeRaP]

1.&2. You know what - I'm no physicist, so I don't know exactly the topic of thermodynamics.
As a matter of fact, I have adressed the statement of Stephan Hawking ("the most intelligent man on the world"),
who put up that theory (and the theory of thermodynamics already existed when he said that).
If the universe wasn't there from the beginning, ok than also the law of thermodynamics might
be invalid (only at the point of creation, because there must have been something different that
also created the law of thermodynamics) - that's what I wanted to say. But as said, wether
you argue that the universe was created by God or out of a concentrated piece of matter, you
just can't prove neither (and I'm confident that still science will unveil this mystery once, because it solved
thousend of mysteries before, and even if it can't, I still won't believe in God as a result of my previously or following stated indications.).
1000/2000 of years ago, almost everything that happened (in nature,...) was unexplainable for the people and
thus explained by God. Today one of the few revailing questions is day one of the universe, that
means that million of things explained by God were reduced to only a few you can count on your fingers.
Deducing from that, I'm pretty confident that also these mysteries will be explained rationally.

3. All forms of quality that you see as a form of God, I see as a result of the interest
of a community of human beings as world dominating species to get along with each other because
otherwise we would destroy ourselves. That's also why selfishness isn't rewarded (though I
still see lots of selfish ppl ruling our world), problem is for the mass of blind ppl to
find selfishness in other ppl.

4. Accident, luck? In an probably infinite universe, the earth is the only planet that has
such a form of complicated life (the only planet we know by now, I don't deny the possibility
of extraterrestrial life). Billions of factors combined (right temperature(distance from sun), right atmosphere, etc...) and allowed accidently life to exist. Evolution - trial and error. Why do we have the will to survive? I don't know, everyone
has to find this answer for himself. Because we wanna know what will happen during our life?Altruism,life
wants fellows to exists? Life wants to live, when something lives it has the will to do so, maybe because it fears
the pain of death? That's a question of philosophy, you're right.

To conclude - you believe in God and I don't but it's always more a feeling than true knowledge. Discussions mostly can't change no opinions cause almost everybody believes with his heart and not with his brain.

Peace

[imthatguy]

...

[mdotwilliams44]

1.&2. You know what - I'm no physicist, so I don't know exactly the topic of thermodynamics. As a matter of fact, I have adressed the statement of Stephan Hawking ("the most intelligent man on the world"), who put up that theory (and the theory of thermodynamics already existed when he said that). If the universe wasn't there from the beginning, ok than also the law of thermodynamics might be invalid (only at the point of creation, because there must have been something different that also created the law of thermodynamics) - that's what I wanted to say. But as said, wether you argue that the universe was created by God or out of a concentrated piece of matter, you just can't prove neither (and I'm confident that still science will unveil this mystery once, because it solved thousend of mysteries before, and even if it can't, I still won't believe in God as a result of my previously or following stated indications.)1000/2000 of years ago, almost everything that happened (in nature,...) was unexplainable for the people and thus explained by God. Today one of the few revailing questions is day one of the universe, that means that million of things explained by God were reduced to only a few you can count on your fingers. Deducing from that, I'm pretty confident that also these mysteries will be explained rationally.

3. All forms of quality that you see as a form of God, I see as a result of the interest
of a community of human beings as world dominating species to get along with each other because
otherwise we would destroy ourselves. That's also why selfishness isn't rewarded (though I
still see lots of selfish ppl ruling our world), problem is for the mass of blind ppl to
find selfishness in other ppl.

4. Accident, luck? In an probably infinite universe, the earth is the only planet that has
such a form of complicated life (the only planet we know by now, I don't deny the possibility
of extraterrestrial life). Billions of factors combined (right temperature(distance from sun), right atmosphere, etc...) and allowed accidently life to exist. Evolution - trial and error. Why do we have the will to survive? I don't know, everyone has to find this answer for himself. Because we wanna know what will happen during our life?Altruism,life wants fellows to exists? Life wants to live, when something lives it has the will to do so, maybe because it fears the pain of death? That's a question of philosophy, you're right.

To conclude - you believe in God and I don't but it's always more a feeling than true knowledge. Discussions mostly can't change no opinions cause almost everybody believes with his heart and not with his brain.

Peace
1. correction It is a hypothesis. But if you understood more you would understand that his hypothesis does not conflict with Einstein's theories of relativity. One of his theories points to the theory that if you were to look through a strong enough telescope you could eventually see the back of your head. (I am not a physisit either but this is what the man said). Neither of these two theories conflict. Hawking says there is no end to the universe. Einstein in a way described the universe in a somewhat of a circular manner. Which just like everything inside of the universe works in a cyclical fashion and would still hold true to the laws of thermodynamics.

2. Then when the universe was created so were the laws. Exactly that is exactly the point i am trying to get across. God didnt so much create the universe as much as he did the laws of the universe which naturally shaped the universe and the cycle of nature and the universe. He also shaped the laws of survival, which controls every function of living things, and he exists in the universe as a Spirit of Love and the source of all Quality.

3. I dont know how it was created your right. But just the fact that you can prove it was created at some point because it will end as we know it at somepoint. Anything with an ending had a begginning. And anything with a beginning had a source Is what i call God. All science can do is wipe away ignorance, but it appears that it has also created arrogance. If science cant answer these questions you still wont believe but that is your choice I believe if you would humble your heart you would be able to find the Truth.
Question? do you believe that any law existed before the universe existed. Like the law of gravity how could it?

4. I dont understand what you mean by my theory of Quality is man made? that doesnt really make much sence. Explain that again to me. And selfishness is rewarded on earth. Selfishness gets you more money, lying, killing and stealling are ways of getting money and they work. Bribery works. But you lose peace of mind and that is not man made and you cant purchase peace of mind at any store that only comes from serving the Spirit of God and until you serve that Spirit (earnestly in your own heart) then you will never know what i am talking about and it will sound stupid. And dont look in the church for peace of mind dont look at the pastor or reverend for the servants because only servants can tell if they have an earnest heart. Only God can judge a mans heart. And only God can give you perfect peace. Thats why money and selfishness dont buy happieness.

Accident, Luck??? hahaaha. Thats as much of a ridiculous answer as the story of Adam and Eve. But even then you still dont have any clue as to why we keep striving to survive. How were the laws of survival created. We know they exist in all living things, but we dont know why. If after we die its over there is no after life, then after i die there will be no knowledge of a universe existing and there will be no need for any humans to exist after i die. So either there is an after lifethat we are subconsciously aware of or Survival instincts are God given.

[LeRaP]

@Question? do you believe that any law existed before the universe existed. Like the law of gravity how could it?
A: No. But I also don't believe that in place of any law a god existed before, because if
laws can't exist outta nothing, a god can't neither.

4.You said "You know Quality in thought and action by how much peace the thought or action brings you when you complete it"
When ppl aim to create peace, that's because we need peace to survive, otherwise we would
exterminate ourselves. When being selfish you violate the principle of altruism, and altruism
is again something that ppl found to be advantagous in a community of ppl to live in peace together.
It's not good for the community and that's what you call corruption of mind because it destroys
the community.
That's why your Quality in thought and action that creates peace is a result of a humans will
to survive IMO.

Regarding accident & luck, think again. The earth is the only celestial body where life exists, as we know by now.
Billions of planets seems to have no life on it. Why didn't god create life there? Or was it
simply a random combination of billions of factors that made life on earth possible? IMO yes.
And in my previous post, I tried to give you an answer about what I believe is the reason
for the will of suvival. Why do I don't wanna die? Because I'm curious what I'm gonna make
out of my life , fear the pain of death and don't want to serve my important fellow ppl.
Ask yourselve what your reasons are. It's a philosophical question but it doesn't justify
the existence of god to me.

But it seems to make no sense to discuss that anymore because believe and disbelieve in god on this level
is a topic where everybody stands on his position and is most likely not to move away.

[mdotwilliams44]

@Question? do you believe that any law existed before the universe existed. Like the law of gravity how could it?
A: No. But I also don't believe that in place of any law a god existed before, because if
laws can't exist outta nothing, a god can't neither.

4.You said "You know Quality in thought and action by how much peace the thought or action brings you when you complete it"
When ppl aim to create peace, that's because we need peace to survive, otherwise we would exterminate ourselves. When being selfish you violate the principle of altruism, and altruism is again something that ppl found to be advantagous in a community of ppl to live in peace together. It's not good for the community and that's what you call corruption of mind because it destroys the community. That's why your Quality in thought and action that creates peace is a result of a humans will to survive IMO.

Regarding accident & luck, think again. The earth is the only celestial body where life exists, as we know by now.
Billions of planets seems to have no life on it. Why didn't god create life there? Or was it
simply a random combination of billions of factors that made life on earth possible? IMO yes.
And in my previous post, I tried to give you an answer about what I believe is the reason
for the will of suvival. Why do I don't wanna die? Because I'm curious what I'm gonna make
out of my life , fear the pain of death and don't want to serve my important fellow ppl.
Ask yourselve what your reasons are. It's a philosophical question but it doesn't justify
the existence of god to me.

But it seems to make no sense to discuss that anymore because believe and disbelieve in god on this level
is a topic where everybody stands on his position and is most likely not to move away.
Since you dont know God and understand the concept of God this is not a sound argument. Because that would be like saying that because there is no table there no carpenter exists. But your logic on that is not sound since you already said you cannot prove or disprove God logically. Just because you dont believe laws existed before they had anything to apply to doesnot mean that God did not. We are having a debate you really cant argue a mute point like that.

And you dont understand what i mean by peace. I mean peace of mind and values. not world peace. World peace only happens when everyone in the world first has Spiritual peace. And there is no principle of altruism in the scientific and natural world. There is only one law of the living and that is the law of survival of the fittest. And being selfish and hoarding is the best way to ensure your own survival. So your whole hypothesis of what unselfishness will bring you has holes in it. The only reward that unselfishness gives you which is extremely powerful is the gift of Quality values. Quality values lead to Quality thoughts which lead to Quality actions which lead to Quality results which perpetuates inner peace which perpetuates Quality values for everyone to see the blessing of Love within. And This is the blessing that Christians talk about all of the time. And replacing wants with service of a higher power is the only way to replace selfish and self-serving values with peaceful humble and Godly values. Peace is not an action it is a feeling that cannot be measured by scientific measurements because it cannot be detected by empirical evidence. I feel it in my heart(most of the time) and it either grows or decreases based on how unselfishly i am serving God. You simply wont understand this feeling until you humble yourself and feel at one with everything around you and replace wants with God. You will think this is ridiculous and stupid and retarded nonsensical religious jargon but we both know that i am logical and i have still come face to face with the Truth that i cant show you but you have to find for yourself. All of us individually have to find it for yourself, not through a religion alone but through the Spirit.

You are a walking contradiction. on your post on january 12th 7:18 you said what sense would it make for God to just make us if he put up all of these billions of planets. But now you are going to use these billions of planets as a point. Look i never said that we were the only creatures. God is infinitely loving why would he just stop promoting life with us(we arent that great) but you trip me out that you will argue all of these points even if you contradict yourself rather than just admit in your own heart that a God is very possible. But you would rather pushing all of the evidence that i have given to you and all of the (logical) arguments and just say you wont believe no matter what. Besides your argument is not even logical. If there are that many planets and it happened accidentally then it should have happened many more times. So either there are a bunch more civilizations out there or there isnt but that doesnt really explain how life as we know it came about so perfectly from inorganic molecules. And you suppose these molecules combined to make a single cell organism. And this single cell organism which could already survive on its own with these i deal conditions on earth decided to multiply and grow. If after that single cell organism died then would it have known that it ruined the species. NO that is survival instinct. Why did that first organism decide to compete and evolve. Because IT is instinct. So you think that instinct is something that is random and accidenta think that the molecules gave us instinct. And you believe that animals without the same mental process of us have the same reasons as you to survive. NO. do you think that cell was afraid to die? if you do you even have to start questioning the stuff that you are saying. with this question you have to be logical and say well you know i just dont know the answer to that or you can say yeah but i still dont want to prove that there is a God, and at that point i am confident that there is and you are just stubborn in your belief and you really dont want Truth you just want to be right. Which at that point i will have no logical problem with believeing in God, because i would be lying if i said that i never questioned his existance but after you can provide me with no logical explanation of your views i think we can shut the door on this argument. But i hope somewhere in the future you will see the logical truth that i have shown you and you can accept God as being a logically viable belief.

[LeRaP]

Since you dont know God and understand the concept of God this is not a sound argument. Because that would be like saying that because there is no table there no carpenter exists. But your logic on that is not sound since you already said you cannot prove or disprove God logically. Just because you dont believe laws existed before they had anything to apply to doesnot mean that God did not. We are having a debate you really cant argue a mute point like that.


I think you don't know god neither, you just got a personal imagine of him that you believe into. Everybody claims to know god (every religion), he's always different. And that's right, how could I logically disprove anything that is claimed to be in a non-perceivable level?How can you logically disprove that there isn't a world-ruling,cracksmoking elephant in a non-perceivable level? You can't disprove his existence (not possible, it's in a non-perceivable level, thus not perceivable, so maybe it exists) - you can just come, think a second and say "heeey-that's something that you just did invent for fun, you mothafucka". Bingo, that's the point. And that's why I don't believe in all that kind of religious shit that anyone claims. That's what religion and belief lives from.

Your peace of mind and heart you feel is what you believe is peace of mind subjectivly. Some ppl might feel the same peace of mind killing another person or getting that money through selfishness or bombing the next country through selfishness. So if you feel this peace as God ok, that's what you feel, but you can't generalize that, so that everybody should feel like that.

And wtf is a contradiction here? My question was a rethorical question because I already knew my answer (namely that it doesn't make no sense to me IMO) and then I cited the "billions of planets" as my argument for the coincidence of life IMO. I see no contradiction here, just the same 3 words from 2 different views.

Besides your argument is not even logical. If there are that many planets and it happened accidentally then it should have happened many more times.
Maybe it has (I didn't deny the possibily of extraterrestrial life), but on the rest of the planets in our solar system it hasn't and so what sense had it for a God to create them? Just to see them spinning and rotating like some 24 inch rims, bling bling? Doesn't make sense to me.
And regarding that instinct of a single cell organism. How should I know where instinct comes from, I am no single cell organism, so I can only speak for myself. The will of a species to dominate, pure selfishness? I dunno - Ok, you mean it's God made. I don't know what interest god has to see a single cell organism living and having a will to survive. I don't see any sense behind his alleged reasons or interest in anything of this universe to exist. Was his interest to create planet Jupiter to see a rotating ball of gas? I confess, it probably looks entertaining for a minute..... :rolleyes: Come on, be serious here. And just because we (currently) can't find out where every single element of life comes from, doesn't prove the existence of God and I have no interest to explain my views again because I already did multiple times (talkin bout historical mysteries here)

I already stated that I found out that this topic has no more sense to be discussed, I already presented you my views and you don't seem to understand what I mean, ok. And regarding your view - obviously YOU believe you hold the Truth. At least I didn't call my personal belief the Truth with capital T, but you seem to see the existence of a god as a fact and the universal Truth. You think that you're absolutely right and hope that I will some day in the future also find (your) the Truth, as you said? Cool, that's exactly what every cult or religion claims too.
You said you also questioned his existence aight? Maybe then your point of view now will change again. Maybe my point of view will change some day. So feel free to believe the Truth. I will focus on my life, there's enough to do rather than philosophy bout god and truth, I do what I think is right for me and the ones I care for.

[sman234]

ay man preshate it i really need 2 read dat rite now

[mdotwilliams44]

this will be quick. But your point of view as i was pointing out stopped being logical and based on fact. You were just speaking opinion based on what seems to be real to you. That is what i am doing to. I dont judge you for that, but i do think it is ironic that you are so quick to point out that i believe in a non-sensical God but many of the things that you are talking about are illogical too. It is alright to be illogical but it isnt alright to mock someone else and call what i am saying a religion or a cult because i feel strongly against the two. I am just a man who has used the empirical evidence i have seen and deduced that certain types of occurences are inexplicable. Not certain facts because i agree that every fact will eventualy be uncovered by science or human inquisitive mind, but certain types of facts have never been answered and can not be answered with logic and systematic scientific reason.

Now you seem to think that i dont understand what you are trying to say. And i do better than you think I do, because your arguments (nearly all of them) i have presented at some point in my life. I have learned to use a different type of reason that is expanded from pure skeptisim and logic. It is called Spirituality.

Another thing. You have know idea what I know about God or dont know. It is true i could just be giving you lip service and telling you what sounds good and what is argueable, but i am not. You say that every religion thinks they know God well nearly all of them do( the authenic religions, not the cults) but threw time people twist and tangle it up. Try this. read in the encylopedia about each religion. The first few paragraphs will be very similar across the board. Then when they get into ritual and tradition and folklore things get really tangled and twisted and different. and you get myths. But the ideas that i have about God and his principles are virtually the same amongst each religion(although some stress certain things more than others because of circumstance and usefulness of principles in society)

I never said I know the Truth (capital T) i try to know Truth, but i know i never will know the Truth about anything really. This is where i agree with you. I do have more important things to do than worry about that fact, but that does not mean i cant strive to learn Truth and get to know it. I do have the truth as i see it but that is seperate from the Truth which is absolute and which cannot be written by humans(hence why i dont believe in the Bible, because that too is true for the most part but it isnt Absolutely True). And if i did know the Truth about everything then I would basically be claiming that i was God. I am completely humble and i am sure that my views will change and grow and i will be wiser, but i have been down the dead end that i believe you are traveling right now and if i am wrong then that is good for you, but i act as if i know which path you should take speaking solely out of my own personal dissappiontment, but then again i dont know what God has in store for you.

I will be concluding these conversations now but you have earned a great deal of respect from me. And i have learned a few things about my view on God as I was writing I was also learning that is why i did it with such a vigorous obsession. If you have any questions for me on my view or you want me to argue a overly religious person down then get into contact with me.

Last word remember if you dont believe in anything greater than yourself then all you can truly worship is yourself.

[LeRaP]

I have respect for you too as you seem to really feel wit you heart what you say and you did really ask yourself about god - and that's what billion of religious ppl don't do, just to think about god apart from definitely man-made religion. I also have to confess that you got me really thinking and questioning at certain points. Was a interesting conversation.
Yeah aight thx, same goes for you, just holla!

Peace out!

[R. Yung Hoodz]

Mdot i forgot about this topic,

to answer your question, in 9th grade we read primary sources in the form of speeches given by the four of jesus' followers, i cant member exactly but i think one speech is called, sumthing on the mound,

thats all i can remember, and i aint tryna insult your dads religion, im jus stating how chrisitianity came to be

[livintestament]

Props on this post. Sex was originally designed to be between a man and woman after marriage. Any freaky thing you wanna get into while married, go right ahead. Sex is for procreation, first off. It is for making babies. There is pleasure so you can enjoy making a baby. If it hurt who would want to have a baby. On the oral and anal thing. Any type of sex that is done outside of marriage is sin. Sex is Sex. Don't know why most people trip. most of us went 14-17 years before we had sex. whats so hard with going a little longer?

[sweetz254]

To be honest, i don't believe in that. I've already broken it and im sure more people break it than people who follow it. But, im not gna blaspheme or anythin like that. So propz for gettin that info out there, cos it's real talk.
CO-SIGN

[THC]

<man-whore.

:D

[snowman1900]

Props to Le_Rap...i feel ur views

[ArmyOF1]

true shit

[young_crush400]

man i feel this but i dont listen and i should

[jokesta]

props for puttin it out and for havin the courage bro

[Streetballer]

seriouz? haha u can beleive wut u want..but i beleive on living life to the fullest and sex is one thing that makes it much better

amen homie hahah props

[drturner1992]

PROPZ

[redrock]

repent your sins and be saved god forgives

[InYourDreams]

bumps this
reason?: made good discussion

[Nowheelz]

call me a sinner :D

[Rastafarian]

oh shit the guns are back

[EmperorMACC]

Well it should be a christian thing ....it should be known that abstainance is mind of state that should respect because it takes alot mind control to ensure the mental and physical health troughout this time to be 'pure'...

[DytnsNum1Stunna]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/pdub395/Funny%20Shit/positive8.jpg

[magik]

bottom line... ya, if u going around fuckin a ton of women, with no thought about it, u are being selfish and not doing what god asked(not being selfish), if u and another woman both want to have sex, then thats kool... but at the same time I BELIEVE u shouldn't be fuckin all day every day, cuz thats being selfish... i think it's almost impossible not to be selfish at all, because of the soceity we're in, but if u try your best to help others, and make a difference.. instead of just putting your own life before every1 elses, then thats what is right.. the problem wit u microphone, is you're telling people what they have to do, and whats right and wrong, but u have no clue really, u've never been to heaven, you're going with what YOU believe in, every1 has their own belief, i don't follow any religion.. i bring parts of many, and put into my own... why? because a lot of stuff from one religion won't make sense, but sumthing else will... my basic belief is, you are a good person, try as hard as u can NOT TO BE SELFISH, if you feel inside sumthin is wrong, then it probably is, help others, and believe that there is a God... instead of telling people that they need to be christian, u need to talk about the meaning of life, because telling sum1 who already is skeptic about God, that they MUST believe in YOUR religion or they will parrish will do no good, they gotta find their own faith... if you open their mind, God will do the rest

[Tha R.O.C.XXX]

WRD ITS A SIN

[mdotwilliams44]

Damn this thread is back up...I am so tired of this shit. I am tired of thinking about all of the work i put into this one.

[mdotwilliams44]

bottom line... ya, if u going around fuckin a ton of women, with no thought about it, u are being selfish and not doing what god asked(not being selfish), if u and another woman both want to have sex, then thats kool... but at the same time I BELIEVE u shouldn't be fuckin all day every day, cuz thats being selfish... i think it's almost impossible not to be selfish at all, because of the soceity we're in, but if u try your best to help others, and make a difference.. instead of just putting your own life before every1 elses, then thats what is right.. the problem wit u microphone, is you're telling people what they have to do, and whats right and wrong, but u have no clue really, u've never been to heaven, you're going with what YOU believe in, every1 has their own belief, i don't follow any religion.. i bring parts of many, and put into my own... why? because a lot of stuff from one religion won't make sense, but sumthing else will... my basic belief is, you are a good person, try as hard as u can NOT TO BE SELFISH, if you feel inside sumthin is wrong, then it probably is, help others, and believe that there is a God... instead of telling people that they need to be christian, u need to talk about the meaning of life, because telling sum1 who already is skeptic about God, that they MUST believe in YOUR religion or they will parrish will do no good, they gotta find their own faith... if you open their mind, God will do the rest
You sound a lot like a young Mdotwilliams, but you are fighting a losing battle. Remember that you cant change the world, you can only control whats in your heart. Save your energy and put it into practice, because you will end up arguing with people who claim to know the Truth, but anyone who really knows the Truth, knows that they can never know Truth. And that it is only the Righteous path of selfless devotion that can bring you to the truth of the Truth.

[macco568]

GEEET THE FUCKOUTTA HEERE........to some ppl not to me

[mdotwilliams44]

just relax everyone...this thread wont change the world. or people in here.

[jayreason]

^^^^^^

[G roc]

the enlightment has begun

propz yo

[newarkhiphop]

lol imagin not gettin into heaven cuz u got ur dik suked when u was like 14 dammm